Are zillions of ID lists necessary?

[hcacree]

I started hosting a website for the local chapter of a professional group a while ago. I added a "private" subdirectory with ID&PW.

I'm looking at adding some forums, and other tools, each which seems to need another ID & PW.

I can see having a member having one set, but multiples seems crazy. Am I missing something or is the proliferation of IDs and PWs the only way to go?

Is there some subset of the tools which play nicely together and share ID&PWs?

Thanks,
Herb

[slapshotw]

I don't understand what you're asking here. Are you talking about .htaccess ID and Passwords (as in cPanel "Protect Directory")? Why would your forum, for instance, need its own?

[hcacree]

I'd talking about ID/PW sets for various feeee...atures of the site. It seems that all the public domain tools that HostGator uses have their own and individual ID/PW system.

Let's consider ID/PWs for the Board Members....
(1) ID/PW to a private area in our site for them to view and retrieve some pages.
(2) I Created e-mail accounts for them.
(3) I created FTP account so that they could share files.

Members (and Board memebers who are also members too!)
(1) ID/PW to a private area in our site for them to view and retrieve some pages. (was mainly newsletters, bur Board decided to make the newsletters publicly available.)
(2) Approved ID for forum (forum is private to prevent random lunitics posting junk...Well I guess forum doesn't really need a PW, I just have to approve access for ID.)
(3) I'd like to setup automagical newsletter subscription to e-mail
(4) I'd like to setup ability for folks to vote for officers
(5) I'd like to setup folks being able to say yes/no to next dinner meeting.



Could I trim this down using ASP pages? Folks login to private area to see ASP pages and system holds ID so that it can be used for database access?

I don't care how many accounts exist under the covers, I'd like for each person just to have one master ID/PW for the site and that be sync'ed with any other that are needed.

My site isn't the CIA. There really isn't much here, but I'm trying to fend off the numb-numbs of the world. (Kind of like why I lock my car doors. Every seen how fast the locks can be poped? When I locked my keys in the car, the lock smith poped the locks as fast as I could with a key...)

[3Cell Hosting]

Hi hcacree

Most of what you are talking about can be achieved using Joomla and some of the add-on components - all with just one log in per person.

There is a basic forum that works with the same log in, others can be bridged to have same log in. There are many options for access with the basics being as simple as choosing the article and setting public, registered, or special (admin etc).

Have a look here http://www.joomla.org/

Regards

David

[hcacree]

David,

I've looked at Joomla a couple of times and I'm just lost. My impression is that it is a entire development environment with packaged aplications. Is this correct?

I am already lost trying to figure out the tools that HostGator has scripts and ultilites to install. I am really leary of having to install a bunch of new tools on the server. Would that likely be a problem? Or all the underlying tools like Javabean applications which would be installed automagically as I publish content to my website.

The other aspcet of this is that for all the griping about HostGator support, there is some real capability. HostGator just installed a backup for me to solve a problem. It wasn't the smothest problem solving nor the smoothest service. But for $15 I got a LOT of service. I'm just leary of having a bunch of tools (applications?) for which I can't get support. I can't afford to just hire HostGator support to wade through open source code to figure out problems. Another way to put this would be that I'd be a lot more comfortable if HostGator were directly offering this as a tool rather than something I'd have to bolt in.

This is certainly a solution which I did not expect which is the real beauty of being able to ask this kind of question. But I was hoping for some better tools that HostGator could install on the server. Or perhaps some better level of service that I could buy.

I just got Expression Web and truthfully I'd rather stick with something a little more "mainstream" to develop the web pages. I'm not the biggest MS fan in the world, but you have to admit that marketshare wise EW would beat Joomla hand down.

So I guess a somewhat different question would be is it possible to install some of the tools like forums using Joomla, so the ID/PW problem could be managed, but then do my webpages with EW?

Do yu know someone selling services to install Joomla utilities like forums? My impression would be that the public web pages would "just" need to be able to hand off to a portal for the various utilites like forums.

Thanks,
Herb

[slapshotw]

Originally Posted by hcacree

I'm just leary of having a bunch of tools (applications?) for which I can't get support <snip> Another way to put this would be that I'd be a lot more comfortable if HostGator were directly offering this as a tool rather than something I'd have to bolt in.

You're thinking about Joomla and CMSes in general in completely the wrong way. You're not just "bolting them in," and the tools HostGator chose weren't chosen because they're some amazing tools that install easier. The stuff in Fantastico is chosen by Fantastico only because they can get a free license to install it and the terms of the license let them have a custom installer. And HostGator offers Fantastico because they have to to be competitive. SiteBuilder also, it's certainly not best-in-class (though powerful).

Almost everybody with a serious, large, and dynamic website uses a CMS of some sort. I use textpattern because I love it--and it certainly wasn't bolted in. Millions of people with cPanel setups use Wordpress that they're installing themselves. On some sites I pay for Expression Engine, another wonderful CMS that I would never consider "bolted in." The installations of these are exactly what Fantastico would do to install; make a database, change a configuration php file, and unpack some files into the installation directory.

Don't forget also, major CMSes have really helpful forums and communities. The Joomla forum has 821,000 posts--more than 10x the posts on the HostGator forum. You'll find far better support for Joomla on their forum and online documentation than you could ever hope to get directly from HostGator for the tools that are pre-configured.

You have to admit that marketshare wise EW would beat Joomla hand down.

I would SERIOUSLY contest that statement; I'd be willing to bet that Joomla has far more users than Expression Web. And if you only count serious websites, I'd bet Joomla's numbers increase even more.

I hope that helps,
-Matt

[3Cell Hosting]

I have to agree with Matt on this one. Yes - a CMS system can be hard work as you MAY need to trawl a few forums if you get a conflict with third party add-ons.

In general terms it is easier to use a well tested CMS and reliable components (installed with a simple mouse click in most instances) than to suffer with clunky and bloated code. Joomla have a couple of forums that fit straight in and use the existing member login.

If you get a decent templete the possibilities are almost endless. I have even found some really big names are using Joomla and they have their own IT department with programmers - but as they say - why reinvent the wheel!

If you need more help then PM me.

Cheers for now

[gwyneth]

Originally Posted by slapshotw

I would SERIOUSLY contest that statement; I'd be willing to bet that Joomla has far more users than Expression Web.

Your whole post was very well put, Matt. Does Expression Web = Expression Engine?

Joomla must also have at least 100 unofficial fora devoted to it, as well. (I really hate it, but it almost certainly does have more users, with the possible exception of its older half brother Mambo, than any other CMS.)

[slapshotw]

Originally Posted by gwyneth

Your whole post was very well put, Matt. Does Expression Web = Expression Engine?

Thanks Gwyneth.

Nope, different things. Expression Web is Microsoft's successor to frontpage. Expression Engine is a CMS along the lines of Joomla or textpattern, but it's not 100% free. There's a free "core" version, or $99 for the full thing for personal use or $250 for commercial use (which is what I do). I don't use it on every project; my personal website is built on textpattern, but it's well suited and saves a lot of time for some kinds of work. If you're familiar with Veerle's blog, she's a big EE user.

[hcacree]

Wow!

Thanks Matt!

I had no idea Joomla was that big. Just looking at a web page, one can't tell if we talking IBM or someone's garage.

I did realize that Joomla was a big honking tool. I also realized that the "tools" in Joomla were integrated rather than stand alone tools like HostGator provides. I was trying to figure out if I'd have to download stuff to server and run jobs to install stuff there, or if I'd build "applications" on my PC ad just upload them to the HostGator site.

It was absolutely my impression that HostGator picked the tools because they were cheap not necessarily because they were good. My perception is that there are some serious limitations on how all the tools work together. You can set up a wiki, or a forum or a FTP server with no problem. But if you want a forum and a wiki and a ftp server then you seem to have problems. The reason that I pointed back to HostGator was because (we could debate right or wrong here!) I depend on them to be my first line of support.

I'm in the middle of migrating from FrontPage to Expression Web. I've promised improvements that I have to deliver before I can start to think about choosing a different tool. But as the group adds to the requirements for the website, I'll have to take a serious look at something else. I can see the need for a number of different things like forums and wikis but I just can't cope with managing different sets of IDs/PWs. The users wouldn't go for it either. Using one global ID/PW isn't an option either.

It also may be that we just have to hire some web services. Frankly it is more likley the group will just have to do without. We're a professoinal orgaization of about 150 folks and we just can't afford to spend thousands of dollars a year on a website.

[hcacree]

I started looking at Fantastico again and Joomla IS one of the tools that it will install...

Feel like a real idiot now. I'll have to look at this seriously....

[slapshotw]

Originally Posted by hcacree

I started looking at Fantastico again and Joomla IS one of the tools that it will install...

Feel like a real idiot now. I'll have to look at this seriously....

Install it manually. Always avoid using fantastico to install when possible, for reasons I've put in other threads on the subject.

[gwyneth]

Xaraya is the king of powerful permission-ability. Probably too powerful, if such a thing is possible, because learning how all the different levels fit together and can be set is somewhat...daunting.