VBulletin questions/issues + a couple of random questions...

[NeilF]

We're looking to move from our existing host due to their slow/unreliable MySQL.

Our VBulleting:-
- has nearly 2000 users, of which say about 100 visit a day
- the database is currently about 185mb

Are these figures OK for a Hatchling account? I'm concerned about the 500 emails per hour limit? Give we have email notification to subsribed threads, are we not risking breaking that limit?


Couple of other questions:-
1) With our existing MySQL DB (compressed to say a 40mb file), will we be able to load it up? Or will it be too big and take too long so support would have to do it?
2) Can you run CGI (perl) scripts from any directory and not just the cgi-bin?
3) We use service site includes in our HTML, I assume these can be done on files called '.html'?

[NeilF]

Originally Posted by NeilF

3) We use service site includes in our HTML, I assume these can be done on files called '.html'?

Should read:-
3) We use server side includes in our HTML, I assume these can be done on files called '.html'?

[Rockoids]

Originally Posted by NeilF

We're looking to move from our existing host due to their slow/unreliable MySQL.

Our VBulleting:-
- has nearly 2000 users, of which say about 100 visit a day
- the database is currently about 185mb

Are these figures OK for a Hatchling account? I'm concerned about the 500 emails per hour limit? Give we have email notification to subsribed threads, are we not risking breaking that limit?


Couple of other questions:-
1) With our existing MySQL DB (compressed to say a 40mb file), will we be able to load it up? Or will it be too big and take too long so support would have to do it?
2) Can you run CGI (perl) scripts from any directory and not just the cgi-bin?
3) We use service site includes in our HTML, I assume these can be done on files called '.html'?

Without being specific about the programming aspects, vBulletin is resource-intensive and I would be skeptical of getting good performance on a basic shared account. I suppose it's worth a try, but, frankly, it's not just the number of visitors, but what they are doing and how many messages are posted.

But I would consider a higher-end hosting plan for one of those forums.

[NeilF]

Originally Posted by rockoids

Without being specific about the programming aspects, vBulletin is resource-intensive and I would be skeptical of getting good performance on a basic shared account. I suppose it's worth a try, but, frankly, it's not just the number of visitors, but what they are doing and how many messages are posted.

But I would consider a higher-end hosting plan for one of those forums.

Really? But all the account here offer the same MySQL performance don't they?

[Rockoids]

Originally Posted by NeilF

Really? But all the account here offer the same MySQL performance don't they?

Shared, yes. But with a database that large, I wonder if you shouldn't look beyond that level.

[NeilF]

Originally Posted by rockoids

Shared, yes. But with a database that large, I wonder if you shouldn't look beyond that level.

Don't think size is important... It's how much it's accessed surely...


Also regarding mine concern over number of emails. The issue is obviously notification emails from VBulletin. Now if someone replies to a thread with 15 users involved who all get email noticiations. Is that 15 emails or just 1 (to 15 people) going out?

It's going to be 15 surely isn't it? That makes 500 sound dangerously small! ie: If a dozen people reply to a dozen threads with a dozen people involved, thats 144 emails straight away!!!

[gwyneth]

One way to evaluate a prospective move: compare the cost of your account at the current host to the cost of the HG account you're considering. For example, if you have problems with a $15 account elsewhere, a $5 account at HG will probably NOT work. The greater the cost differential, the more likely potential unhappiness.

[Rockoids]

Originally Posted by gwyneth

One way to evaluate a prospective move: compare the cost of your account at the current host to the cost of the HG account you're considering. For example, if you have problems with a $15 account elsewhere, a $5 account at HG will probably NOT work. The greater the cost differential, the more likely potential unhappiness.

Good point. Basically, there's no free ride when it comes to hosting. Yes, there is some variation in performance, based on hardware, the network and how many users they cram onto a shared server, plus the ability to make sure that people who abuse resources are promptly dealt with.

In the end, though, unless there was something really wrong with the setup at your old host, don't expect a miracle here or anywhere.

I personally think it's a good idea to try shared and if it doesn't work, make sure you have a budget to upgrade to dedicated.

[gwyneth]

Originally Posted by NeilF

We're looking to move from our existing host due to their slow/unreliable MySQL.

The problems may (or may not) be more related to your forum's setup than the host.

Originally Posted by NeilF

Our VBulleting:-
- has nearly 2000 users, of which say about 100 visit a day
- the database is currently about 185mb

The issue is more complicated than "visits". There's a huge difference between 100 people visiting a day, with maybe half submitting one post and a quarter more than one post, and 100 highly active members actively participating in multi-page threads.

Plus, the HG limit of 25 concurrent connections (fairly standard for shared accounts at most places) should accommodate several hundred users active at the same time.

The fact that you are so worried about email limits, given that vBulletin should be able to throttle the emails, and that 500 per hour is really pretty high, suggests that your forum has greater needs than you are acknowledging (if not to yourself, than in your post).

Rockoid's suggestion about trying a shared account but being prepared to upgrade is sensible.

Originally Posted by NeilF

2) Can you run CGI (perl) scripts from any directory and not just the cgi-bin?
3) We use service site includes in our HTML, I assume these can be done on files called '.html'?

2. yes
3. depending on your setup, you may need to use the .shtml extension.

[Goddess Dix]

Our VBulleting:-
- has nearly 2000 users, of which say about 100 visit a day
- the database is currently about 185mb

how many guests and users together are typically online at a time? that's what's going to count, rather than how many in the course of a day.

your database size doesn't matter. what you'll be looking at is cpu resources.

Are these figures OK for a Hatchling account? I'm concerned about the 500 emails per hour limit? Give we have email notification to subsribed threads, are we not risking breaking that limit?

vb has a somewhat crude throttling mechanism you can set in the vboptions of the admincp. it sends out reg and password reminders at once, but can throttle the subs notifications.

1) With our existing MySQL DB (compressed to say a 40mb file), will we be able to load it up? Or will it be too big and take too long so support would have to do it?

if you are coming from a cpanel host, i would definitely suggest letting hg do it. easier and free. as far as if you can, well, depending on the tools you're using, sure. i don't know if they give you jailed shell for the shared, but it would be much easier via shell; phpmyadmin isn't great for larger transfer as it usually will time out before you can do your stuff.

3) We use service site includes in our HTML, I assume these can be done on files called '.html'?

easier if you can realistically rename thme to .shtml. you can set .htaccess to parse .html for ssi as well, but the downside is that you add server load by forcing it to parse all pages, whether needed or not. i don't know how heavy the load is for that, though.

do you run a lot of mods on your board? certain mods really hit performance wise, and it's the performance issues that you'll be looking at for cpu load.

really, much of it depends on your board and how it's used. it's not the mysql so much as how many queries are hitting at the same time and what they are. so if you run a board with maybe a hundred or so people online at a time, and are running 10 mods that add some fairly demanding queries for each of of those people, it adds up.

the connection limit is usually not an issue, as others have said. it's the queries you're looking at and the place most likely for potential issues with a shared hosting account, wherever you get it.

[NeilF]

Originally Posted by Goddess Dix

how many guests and users together are typically online at a time? that's what's going to count, rather than how many in the course of a day.

your database size doesn't matter. what you'll be looking at is cpu resources.



vb has a somewhat crude throttling mechanism you can set in the vboptions of the admincp. it sends out reg and password reminders at once, but can throttle the subs notifications.



if you are coming from a cpanel host, i would definitely suggest letting hg do it. easier and free. as far as if you can, well, depending on the tools you're using, sure. i don't know if they give you jailed shell for the shared, but it would be much easier via shell; phpmyadmin isn't great for larger transfer as it usually will time out before you can do your stuff.




easier if you can realistically rename thme to .shtml. you can set .htaccess to parse .html for ssi as well, but the downside is that you add server load by forcing it to parse all pages, whether needed or not. i don't know how heavy the load is for that, though.

do you run a lot of mods on your board? certain mods really hit performance wise, and it's the performance issues that you'll be looking at for cpu load.

really, much of it depends on your board and how it's used. it's not the mysql so much as how many queries are hitting at the same time and what they are. so if you run a board with maybe a hundred or so people online at a time, and are running 10 mods that add some fairly demanding queries for each of of those people, it adds up.

the connection limit is usually not an issue, as others have said. it's the queries you're looking at and the place most likely for potential issues with a shared hosting account, wherever you get it.

The only mods we really run are VBShout and FlashChat. We have a couple of others installed but these are just little things for an dynamic announcements and the like (which to be honest aren't used much).

Our current host has a 500 email per hour limit as well. And I don't believe we hit any issues. The thing is I have no idea how many emails we send out an hour!

We have about 100-200 posts a day.

Typical number of users are about 5-35 (members & guests) - As I type this we have 3 members and 9 guests attached.

The ONLY reason we're looking to move from them is their very poor MySQL performance meaning often the forum is too slow. I've compared our forum running to a few reasonably sized ones one HostGator and HostGator appears to run beautifully quick!



I'd be happy to spend $10-$15 a month for guarenteed hassle free performance - That said after a lot of looking around Hostgator seems to constantly be recommended by VBulletin users...

[Rockoids]

Originally Posted by NeilF

The only mods we really run are VBShout and FlashChat. We have a couple of others installed but these are just little things for an dynamic announcements and the like (which to be honest aren't used much).

Our current host has a 500 email per hour limit as well. And I don't believe we hit any issues. The thing is I have no idea how many emails we send out an hour!

We have about 100-200 posts a day.

Typical number of users are about 5-35 (members & guests) - As I type this we have 3 members and 9 guests attached.

The ONLY reason we're looking to move from them is their very poor MySQL performance meaning often the forum is too slow. I've compared our forum running to a few reasonably sized ones one HostGator and HostGator appears to run beautifully quick!



I'd be happy to spend $10-$15 a month for guarenteed hassle free performance - That said after a lot of looking around Hostgator seems to constantly be recommended by VBulletin users...

Then go for it man.

[NeilF]

Can you run FlashChat and ShoutBox on Hostgator?

[Goddess Dix]

Originally Posted by NeilF

Can you run FlashChat and ShoutBox on Hostgator?

with the number of concurrent users you describe, i would have no concerns about running on shared hosting. neither flashchat nor shoutbox should be an issue with hg's terms.

i have heard negative things about some shoutbox plugins hitting performance, but have never run one myself, so i would maybe montior that one. not that your current host necessarily is well set up, but i imagine you may be frustrated if you move only to discover it's the shoutbox hitting your performanace instead of the mysql setup.

one thing you could look at is running a vb debug command breifly to review how many queries your forum making and what is taking the most time. that would give you an idea pretty quickly of what perfomance issues you might expect.

[NeilF]

Many thanks! So here are so specific figures. Am I going to run on HostGator OK?

Our site stats (for the entire website) for Feb:-
- Total Hits 3,072,554
- Total Files 2,343,497
- Total Pages 1,246,668
- Total Visits 50,593
- Total KBytes 13,623,373

- Hits per Hour 4,414 / 14,977 (avg / max)
- Hits per Day 105,950 / 173,885 (avg / max)
- Files per Day 80,810 / 136,699 (avg / max)
- Pages per Day 42,988 / 96,012 (avg / max)
- Visits per Day 1,744 / 1,982 (avg / max)
- KBytes per Day 469,771 / 578,102 (avg / max)

Our VBulletin forum:-
- Threads: 9,681, Posts: 132,192, Members: 1,817. The MySQL database is about 190mb currently after just about over 2yrs of use.
- Typically we have about 5-50 users online, and about 200 posts a day. Not sure how many emails (notifications) this produces!

I am absolutely fine with losing ShoutBox. I believe Hostgator say you are NOT allowed it?


Is that MySQL database OK? Size wise? Even if it doubles or tripples in size??

So is anyone here running a VBulletin forum with say 50ish users online at a time? And a good few hundred posts a day? Any chance of a URL to take a look at it running?

Thanks!

[Rockoids]

Originally Posted by NeilF

Many thanks! So here are so specific figures. Am I going to run on HostGator OK?

Our site stats (for the entire website) for Feb:-
- Total Hits 3,072,554
- Total Files 2,343,497
- Total Pages 1,246,668
- Total Visits 50,593
- Total KBytes 13,623,373

- Hits per Hour 4,414 / 14,977 (avg / max)
- Hits per Day 105,950 / 173,885 (avg / max)
- Files per Day 80,810 / 136,699 (avg / max)
- Pages per Day 42,988 / 96,012 (avg / max)
- Visits per Day 1,744 / 1,982 (avg / max)
- KBytes per Day 469,771 / 578,102 (avg / max)

Our VBulletin forum:-
- Threads: 9,681, Posts: 132,192, Members: 1,817. The MySQL database is about 190mb currently after just about over 2yrs of use.
- Typically we have about 5-50 users online, and about 200 posts a day. Not sure how many emails (notifications) this produces!

I am absolutely fine with losing ShoutBox. I believe Hostgator say you are NOT allowed it?


Is that MySQL database OK? Size wise? Even if it doubles or tripples in size??

So is anyone here running a VBulletin forum with say 50ish users online at a time? And a good few hundred posts a day? Any chance of a URL to take a look at it running?

Thanks!

That's an awful lot of traffic for a shared site. Really, I am extremely skeptical that this is suitable for shared. I might be wrong, but I've been around the block a few times.