Upcoming Mail System Changes: Mail Gateway

[gtgeorge]

Originally Posted by rec9140

I block a whole slew of places, from websense, cyveillance, .mil, .gov, all of china, and just about any place that supports or harbors terrorists and their activities like iran, iraq, israel, etc.. Slease ball organizations like the **aa's, entertainment companies, open proxies, hosts running private proxies.
The .mil/.gov is blocked due to my own personal revolt.
Alot of the blocks are there to prevent spam on wiki based sites.
Plus none of the sites has information that applies outside the US really any way, so no need to visit.

Thanks for the explanation. I was curious and you satisfied my curiosity

[gwyneth]

Originally Posted by rec9140

I block a whole slew of places, from websense, cyveillance, .mil, .gov, all of china, and just about any place that supports or harbors terrorists and their activities like iran, iraq, israel, etc.. Slease ball organizations like the **aa's, entertainment companies, open proxies, hosts running private proxies.

The .mil/.gov is blocked due to my own personal revolt.

Alot of the blocks are there to prevent spam on wiki based sites.

Plus none of the sites has information that applies outside the US really any way, so no need to visit.

What kind of error page displays or does the browser just tell them "unable to find..."?

[rec9140]

Originally Posted by gwyneth

What kind of error page displays or does the browser just tell them "unable to find..."?

Standard 403 error. Then after about 5 seconds it shuffles them off to google.

I've considered putting a very loud and annoying Star Trek Red alert WAV or something on the site. That blares away till they go away.

Theres no hint as to why, just 403 go away!

Giving some people a hint would just entice them to use proxies I've not found yet.

Hi all,

The explanation by Brent is correct, but is only 1 small piece of the overall solution. We intend to do a lot more filtering on the way out, hopefully stopping the majority of the "junk" mail from leaving our network. So yes, IP rotation is one small piece of the puzzle, but it is obviously not the solution.

I intend to discuss the specifics in more detail, but we're finalizing which pieces are going to go live on this, so the final details may change over the next day or two. We're busy working on it right now, though.

As for SPF, the mail cluster will have correct forward/reverse DNS and it should be possible to add the mail cluster's name to your SPF record. Unless Dave decides otherwise, I believe all IPs in the mail cluster will resolve to the same name for simplicity's sake.

[TeeJa]

Anyone get an answer if they plan on putting the dedis on this?? If so, got to search for another company to put my dedi...

[slapshotw]

I'm sure they won't, that'd only cause them more money/resources on the servers and cause all the dedicated people to be unhappy. I have a feeling that most dedicated owners have a decent enough handle on the blacklisting.

We have no plans to require dedicated servers to use this system, as they have more flexibility to combat these issues directly. We are primarily focusing on resolving outstanding issues with the shared servers. I didn't see you ask the question previously, sorry.

[gwyneth]

Originally Posted by GatorJamyn

As for SPF, the mail cluster will have correct forward/reverse DNS and it should be possible to add the mail cluster's name to your SPF record. Unless Dave decides otherwise, I believe all IPs in the mail cluster will resolve to the same name for simplicity's sake.

I may be missing something, but how is that transparent?

[supernix]

I find this thread hilarious. They finally do something to help curb spam greatly and some dedicated server users threaten to switch.
I guess I will double that threat as well then (Hostgator if you dare offer better service I will just take my toys else where and go play in another sandbox!) Once again keep up the great service Hostgator

[gtgeorge]

Originally Posted by supernix

I find this thread hilarious. They finally do something to help curb spam greatly and some dedicated server users threaten to switch.
I guess I will double that threat as well then (Hostgator if you dare offer better service I will just take my toys else where and go play in another sandbox!) Once again keep up the great service Hostgator

I'm not sure about you, but I like having my own control over the box and how it handles email. I surely don't want someone else deciding if messages I send or receive are spam or not.

And I find it amusing that you found it amusing that everyone on a dedicated server would find it acceptable if it where to be the case.

[supernix]

Yeah I agree having complete control over your server and every config and routing and all that is great. But to expect that level of control you honestly have to get your own T1 or DS1 whichever you prefer and hook it to your own server with your own IP. Even with a dedicated server your still using their IP space and lines. So it is only reasonable that they do what ever they can to curb abuse at every level. I never send spam and heck I can't even mail my members list due to TOS rules and server setup. And while I get many new members daily I still get many bounced messages due to the Hostgator ip space being blocked due to blackholing the Hostgator ip range because of some scum bag spammer.
But while I find it aggravating to have a user who can't access the signup emails I find it comforting to know they are doing what they can to be responsible netizens and clean up the spam.
There is no way to gaurantee that legitimate emails will never be blocked in an attempt to curb spam but that is the risk you have to take to do the right thing. I can't believe I said that as I am totally opposed to people getting sent to prison just because they can't actually prove they did not commit the crime and yet still do the time.
It is sort of like getting locked out of your house. If you didn't put those pesky locks on the doors to keep people out then you would not have to worry about being locked out yourself. But you have to have the locks just in case the wrong person happens by.
It would be nice if we could still have servers that never bounced a message. But in these days and times it just can't happen like that.
Honestly I wish people had the same policy about junk mail in your mail box. That same cut them off at the knees attitude. On the one hand with good filters on the user side the issue of recieving spam could be dealt with without ever using server level tactics. But I have yet to find any filter that really can identify real mail compared to spam. Hmmm looks like I talked long enough to make both our points. LOL going in circles gang.

[slapshotw]

Originally Posted by supernix

But to expect that level of control you honestly have to get your own T1 or DS1 whichever you prefer and hook it to your own server with your own IP.

No, to get that level of control what we have to get is a dedicated server, because we have that level of control. That's part of the appeal of them, and why I wrote in my response that I doubt HG would have dedicated users do that.

And while I get many new members daily I still get many bounced messages due to the Hostgator ip space being blocked due to blackholing the Hostgator ip range because of some scum bag spammer.

Most dedicated people have a handle on this problem, it's one of the big reasons for going to dedicated. It can happen to us, but at least we have more control over fixing the problem.

That's why there's no benefit to HG putting dedicated users on the new system, and why I said they wouldn't, and why they said they wouldn't. It would only cost them more to have to support that many more email addresses in it, and make dedicated users unhappy.

Either way, everybody agrees that less spam and less blacklists are better.

[GatorDaveC]

It looks like we are going to have to postpone the launch of our Mail Gateway. I have had absolutely no time to work on it this week at all.

We want to make sure that the user connection tracking cluster perfectly, and other restrictions are working before the launch.

[slapshotw]

Originally Posted by GatorDaveC

It looks like we are going to have to postpone the launch of our Mail Gateway. I have had absolutely no time to work on it this week at all.

We want to make sure that the user connection tracking cluster perfectly, and other restrictions are working before the launch.

My feeling is that what's going on still hasn't been completely explained. This is only for people using HG server SMTP and email that originates on-site? What exactly happens? You're modifying exim?

[chaloupe]

They would setup all HG shared and resellers server mail application to point to the mail cluster and then cluster would scan and deliver maybe?

[nystagmus]

Any chance of an update DaveC?

[chaloupe]

Hi,

Don't want to tell too much but GatorDaveC is still working on it so yes the Mail Gateway is still on as I spoken with him 2 days ago!

He will surely let us know about it with an update of this thread.

Best regards,

[kmaw]

Yeah, it was on his ASAP to-do list, which I think is an abbreviated version of the much longer to do list...

[chaloupe]

Originally Posted by kmaw

Yeah, it was on his ASAP to-do list, which I think is an abbreviated version of the much longer to do list...

Give him some time. The guy is working non stop!

I would also prefer having the gateway working perfectly than bouncing all good emails when it is put online.

Best Regards,

[nystagmus]

I totally agree, I'd rather it was working perfectly too. My problem is I work for a charity who need a new host which I fell Hostgator would definitely fit the bill, but I have one main concern... bouncing emails due to blacklisted server.

I currently have an account with HG and every few days I find that the server I'm on is blacklisted and emails I send are bounced back due to this. This charity needs to change hosts within a week or two and my only concern/hesitation is with the blacklisting. They cannot afford for this to affect them.

I would like to move them to hostgator, but am just awaiting news. Short of that unfortunately I may have to look elsewhere which I don't want to do.

[outshine]

Hello,

Can we get an update on this? I've been blacklisted twice so far this week.

Thanks!

Luke

[punkandp]

I hope things are working better soon, starting today I have gotten constant bounces from hotmail, msn, comcast.

I have been very impressed with the customer service of Hostgator so far and I love the hosting, but if the email continues like this I will have no choice to leave...unless HG will discount me the cost of a external smtp hosting service.

[Popi91]

I'm getting blacklisted today as well.

I need this to stop because we communicate with our customers through email and this is costing us business.

I sent a support ticket today.

[gtgeorge]

Originally Posted by Popi91

I'm getting blacklisted today as well.

I need this to stop because we communicate with our customers through email and this is costing us business.

I sent a support ticket today.

Sorry, but this is part of shared hosting and still will happen no matter what measures are put into place. Did you ticket the rbl abuse email?

[Popi91]

Originally Posted by gtgeorge

Sorry, but this is part of shared hosting and still will happen no matter what measures are put into place. Did you ticket the rbl abuse email?

Yes I did.

I have had this account for almost two years and this is the first time it has been blacklisted.