Upcoming Mail System Changes: Mail Gateway

***GatorDaveC*** · #1 08-31-2007, 11:37 PM

Good evening folks,

We've recently began development on a new mail gateway system that should alleviate future issues with potential blacklists. In order to avoid our systems being blacklisted altogether & add preventative measures in place to reduce outgoing spam, we'll be setting up a 'Mail Gateway'.

The Mail Gateway is currently slated for finalization during the September 15th weekend. The new system shouldn't have any effects on the way your mail is sent or received nor are there any problems foreseen. No end-user changes will need to be made whatsoever, we've got everything covered.

If you have any additional questions regarding our upcoming mail gateway, blacklists or changes being made please don't hesitate to contact me via the support system by creating a ticket with 'ATTN: Dave C'.

smp · #2 09-01-2007, 04:36 AM

That's nice to to to know.

Regards, Steve Xx

slapshotw · #3 09-01-2007, 02:38 PM

Can you explain this better? How will the Mail Gateway not be blacklisted? And I assume this doesn't affect dedicated users?

rec9140 · #4 09-01-2007, 07:07 PM

Yes, I could use a detailed explanation of this too. As I've just moved a MAJOR client's email to HG and I don't need any issues with this change. They've had enough grief with two providers already.

rota919 · #5 09-02-2007, 09:42 AM

Thanks for the pre-warning that you guys are changing something.
I hope this is going to solve more problems than create new ones.

slapshotw · #6 09-02-2007, 02:34 PM

The pre-warning is almost meaningless without more details!

gtgeorge · #7 09-02-2007, 03:57 PM

The pre-warning says cancel all vacations and man the phone lines

gwyneth · #8 09-02-2007, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapshotw

The pre-warning is almost meaningless without more details!

Though it's supposed to be transparent, this is like saying the window may have bird goop and mud spatters on the outside that mar the effect temporarily.

DarkSorrow · #9 09-03-2007, 12:41 PM

Could this be where the bounced email messages are coming from??

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.
A message that you sent has not yet been delivered to one or more of its recipients after more than 24 hours on the queue on gator44.hostgator.com.

The message identifier is: 1IRiDp-0006bQ-H5
The subject of the message is: **removed**
The date of the message is: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 00:41:51 -0500

The address to which the message has not yet been delivered is:
email@us.army.mil
Delay reason: SMTP error from remote mail server after MAIL FROM:<email@domain.com> SIZE=7088:
host mx.dr1.us.army.mil [143.69.243.34]: 451 #4.1.8 Domain of sender address <email@domain.com> does not resolve

No action is required on your part. Delivery attempts will continue for some time, and this warning may be repeated at intervals if the message remains undelivered. Eventually the mail delivery software will give up, and when that happens, the message will be returned to you.

***GatorBrent*** · #10 09-06-2007, 12:56 PM

I'm not as techie as Dave so here im newbie understanding of what we are doing.....

Many of our servers are constantly getting on some black list wether it be sorbs, spamcop, etc. All it sometimes takes is one email, and the entire server is blacklisted until whatever time the spam list responds to our removal request. It's completely out of our hands since most of the listings endup from some insecure script one of you all upload. The spammers exploit the script sending tons of emails. Of course we disable the script within minutes, but the damage is already done resulsting in blacklistings for the server. What we are starting to see even more of is volume blocks. A server may be sending 100% legit mail, but it's put on a tmp block because the amount of volume from the single ip is suspicious.

What we are doing now isn't going to solve blacklistings from happening, but it will constantly be changing the ip used for out going mail. When an ip is blacklisted we remove that ip from the list to be able to send mail until it's delisted. We will have 100's of ips on this server which should solve spam listing problems we see now.

I would say blacklistings are the number one complaint customers have about hostgator currently. There's a few other companies who have switched to this method recently with great success.

***GatorBrent*** · #11 09-06-2007, 12:57 PM

Defiance your bounce is from the us military blocking the entire datacenter. The only way to get delisted from this is to have someone in uniform submit for delisting in their internal system.

Sam · #12 09-06-2007, 04:14 PM

Will this be done for dedicated users?

DarkSorrow · #13 09-06-2007, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorBrent

Defiance your bounce is from the us military blocking the entire datacenter. The only way to get delisted from this is to have someone in uniform submit for delisting in their internal system.

Ok thanks for the heads up.

Will this email change affect Dedicated emails as well?

gtgeorge · #14 09-06-2007, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Sam_

Will this be done for dedicated users?

I wouldn't think so as that would divert the mail load to the mail servers then. I imagine they will be well taxed as is for the resellers and shared! Watching what load could happen to a server would suggest several servers needed as mail servers to handle the load. I personally would not set my server to use them! I would think most dedicated people are happy that they control the load and mail going through their server.

MikeC · #15 09-06-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorBrent

.....it will constantly be changing the ip used for out going mail.

HG, depending on what is done with 'Received' headers, this could be anything but transparent for those of us that publish SPF records in our DNS entries. If the initial received header has a different IP address than our published SPF records you could be actually causing our outbound mail to be rejected by the receiving systems.

HG you really need to think long and hard about this and COMMUNICATE, COMMUNICATE COMMUNICATE it out to your customers. We need to publicly know technical details. If you make each and everyone of us open a support ticket to DaveC to get the details you need to have your head examined, just my opinion.

MC

kmaw · #16 09-06-2007, 10:07 PM

Thanks for your efforts Brent and DaveC

slapshotw · #17 09-07-2007, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeC

If the initial received header has a different IP address than our published SPF records you could be actually causing our outbound mail to be rejected by the receiving systems.

You can setup your SPF records for ranges of IP addresses or CIDR blocks like /16 or /24. I'm sure all of these IPs will be on the same block of some size, even if it's a large size.

MikeC · #18 09-07-2007, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapshotw

You can setup your SPF records for ranges of IP addresses or CIDR blocks like /16 or /24. I'm sure all of these IPs will be on the same block of some size, even if it's a large size.

True, but only if HG gives us enough details and doesn't make us go on a scavenger hunt to dig it out.

MC

eGlide · #19 09-07-2007, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorBrent

Defiance your bounce is from the us military blocking the entire datacenter. The only way to get delisted from this is to have someone in uniform submit for delisting in their internal system.

Actually I don't believe this is entirely accurate.

If you are on a shared server then the reverse DNS lookup does not resolve to your domain name. It resolves to the shared server such as gator120 as ours does.

The military is blocking all email where the reverse lookup does not exactly match the forward lookup in a effort to reduce spam, spoof, and phishing email.

Has been for some time and the military is unwilling to change policy or delist any domain / server / ip address. As far as the military is concerned it is the sending ISP / mail server who must comply.

ldearing · #20 09-08-2007, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eGlide

Actually I don't believe this is entirely accurate.

If you are on a shared server then the reverse DNS lookup does not resolve to your domain name. It resolves to the shared server such as gator120 as ours does.

The military is blocking all email where the reverse lookup does not exactly match the forward lookup in a effort to reduce spam, spoof, and phishing email.

Has been for some time and the military is unwilling to change policy or delist any domain / server / ip address. As far as the military is concerned it is the sending ISP / mail server who must comply.

lets assume for the moment that this expaination is correct. to check my understanding and perhaps other's... a dedicated IP on shared/reseller account would not help here as you are still useing the shared mailserver IP for email...correct?

slapshotw · #21 09-08-2007, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldearing

lets assume for the moment that this expaination is correct. to check my understanding and perhaps other's... a dedicated IP on shared/reseller account would not help here as you are still useing the shared mailserver IP for email...correct?

That is correct.

ldearing · #22 09-08-2007, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapshotw

That is correct.

thanks

rec9140 · #23 09-08-2007, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eGlide

Has been for some time and the military is unwilling to change policy or delist any domain / server / ip address. As far as the military is concerned it is the sending ISP / mail server who must comply.

Thats fine, as I block all, .mil and .gov sites in .htaccess any way

and have for years.

So we're even as I see it.

gtgeorge · #24 09-08-2007, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rec9140

Thats fine, as I block all, .mil and .gov sites in .htaccess any way

and have for years.
So we're even as I see it.

Really?? What is your reasoning for it?

rec9140 · #25 09-08-2007, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtgeorge

Really?? What is your reasoning for it?

I block a whole slew of places, from websense, cyveillance, .mil, .gov, all of china, and just about any place that supports or harbors terrorists and their activities like iran, iraq, israel, etc.. Slease ball organizations like the **aa's, entertainment companies, open proxies, hosts running private proxies.

The .mil/.gov is blocked due to my own personal revolt.

Alot of the blocks are there to prevent spam on wiki based sites.

Plus none of the sites has information that applies outside the US really any way, so no need to visit.