TOS Update: INODES

[slapshotw]

Originally Posted by cevamal

This morning I logged into the new cpanel for the first time and was pleased to discover a new inode limit of 250k.

The 50k limit had almost driven me to a new host but I'm glad I held out. Hostgator listened to its customers and responded.

This is *not* the case. Please see the bottom of the following post for details:

http://forums.hostgator.com/showpost...6&postcount=86

[cevamal]

Wow. That's a real shock. I contacted tech support before posting to confirm the "new limit" which they did. No mention of the fact that my backups would still fail.

I'm VERY disappointed. I cannot believe the tech I spoke with this morning didn't tell me this.

I ran a backup this morning and received an email stating:

[ ! ] WARNING: Your account is TOO LARGE (Over 4gb) for cPanel backups. Please contact support. [ ! ]

Are these related?

[slapshotw]

Originally Posted by cevamal

I'm VERY disappointed. I cannot believe the tech I spoke with this morning didn't tell me this.

If live chat, do you remember the name of the tech and the time the chat happened? If a ticket, do you have the ticket number? It's best to let HG know when you're given the wrong information so they can correct their techs.

Are these related?

Probably not (inodes vs. account space). Do you have over 4gb of data or is that a mistake?

[cevamal]

No, that's correct. I have about 4.2gb of data. My understanding was that space was "unlimited".

I do not have the name of the chat tech from earlier--I didn't have the transcript emailed. It was around 8:45 Eastern and my name was "Robin". I spoke with another chat tech this afternoon who was trying to look up who gave me the incorrect information this morning.

[slapshotw]

Originally Posted by cevamal

No, that's correct. I have about 4.2gb of data. My understanding was that space was "unlimited".

OK-- I see you're talking with Brian on the other thread about this so I'll leave it to that. I wasn't aware of this 4gb policy though (keep in mind I don't work for Hostgator).

[trysome]

That's a big turnoff for me to.
I use many sites with wordpress, and each wordpress blog has between 1000 and 3000 files.
Was really happy with hostgator until I found out about this one - but maybe there is some solution I'm not aware of yet.

Do I understand it correctly that once you have more than the limit, you have to update from the $10 /month account to a dedicated server for $174, or is there something in between? Can we purchase "inodes" separately?

[lxndr]

Originally Posted by trysome

That's a big turnoff for me to.
I use many sites with wordpress, and each wordpress blog has between 1000 and 3000 files.
Was really happy with hostgator until I found out about this one - but maybe there is some solution I'm not aware of yet.

Do I understand it correctly that once you have more than the limit, you have to update from the $10 /month account to a dedicated server for $174, or is there something in between? Can we purchase "inodes" separately?

Couldn't agree more, I have about a dozen different sites with Hostgator all running YaBB forum software and the 50,000 Inode limit means I am currently looking for a new host for them all. I'm not at all bothered about the backup as I do that myself but a 50,000 Inode limit simply means that Hostgator no longer provides a host which is "fit for service" as far as I'm concerned. A real annoyance as in all other respects I've been very pleased with them.

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[mike240se]

Originally Posted by lxndr

Couldn't agree more, I have about a dozen different sites with Hostgator all running YaBB forum software and the 50,000 Inode limit means I am currently looking for a new host for them all. I'm not at all bothered about the backup as I do that myself but a 50,000 Inode limit simply means that Hostgator no longer provides a host which is "fit for service" as far as I'm concerned. A real annoyance as in all other respects I've been very pleased with them.

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if you dont care about the backup, then what is the problem? if you read the post from the cpanel thread the gator rep clearly states that you can go over 50,000 (up to 250,000) but you wont be backed up. he recommends you dont go over 50k so you can be backed up. but you are saying you dont care about the backup.

i also have the issue. i have like 2gb worth of data and am at 48,000 inodes. some scripts use alot of files and symbolic links. i would doubt someone could even approach the old 600gb limit staying under 50,000 inodes. i mean, yeah, if you have all 100mb+ files but no actual web site is gonna have that.

[lxndr]

Originally Posted by mike240se

if you dont care about the backup, then what is the problem? if you read the post from the cpanel thread the gator rep clearly states that you can go over 50,000 (up to 250,000) but you wont be backed up. he recommends you dont go over 50k so you can be backed up. but you are saying you dont care about the backup.

i also have the issue. i have like 2gb worth of data and am at 48,000 inodes. some scripts use alot of files and symbolic links. i would doubt someone could even approach the old 600gb limit staying under 50,000 inodes. i mean, yeah, if you have all 100mb+ files but no actual web site is gonna have that.

Either I've missed something (quite possible) or you've mis-understood the 250,000 which as I understand it isn't the limit you are allowed just what the endpoint of the cpanel meter is set to. Correspondence with Hostgator in terms of how many Inodes you can have before having your account is suspended is still unclear to me as I've had at least 3 different responses, 2 of those via Live Chat and the other via a ticket. But all were consistent in saying that the limit before being suspended was nothing to do with the 250,000 shown on the cpanel meter.


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[mike240se]

lxndr, here is the post from gatorbrian that i think you missed. Its the one i am talking about, i hope this is helpful!

Posted by gatorbrian in the new cpanel theme thread:

Thanks for the compliments. The reason that our backup/50,000 policy is set to the 50,000 inode limit is due to the time the resources and CPU may be high when creating the backup. We do not want to cause any major resource usage issues when generating/transferring the backup file. I believe there is another post which discusses this further. Other than that, you can use upto 250,000 inodes. You just need to generate a backup file manually if you reached the the 50,000 point. There may be an answer for this issue in the future but it will come from Brent or Dave in another thread.

[lxndr]

Originally Posted by mike240se

lxndr, here is the post from gatorbrian that i think you missed. Its the one i am talking about, i hope this is helpful!

Posted by gatorbrian in the new cpanel theme thread:

Hi Mike,

Many thanks for taking the time to retrieve the post which I must admit does clearly state there's a limit of 250,000. If that is actually the case then that is great news. I guess the thing that's worrying me is that I was given a different story from Live Support and via a ticket.

I'm going to raise another ticket and quote the GatorBrian post and hopefully get confirmation of the limit. Anyway, thanks again.

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[mike240se]

great idea, please let us all know!

[nkmanik]

Hostgator provides Web Hosting Packages Unlimited disk spaces and Unlimited Bandwith. But the problem is Inodes Limitation. if i run blog. forum and smf, i think it will exceed the quota and the account will be suspended. So, the result is, Unlimited space is unneccessary.

[peter_anderson]

Originally Posted by nkmanik

Hostgator provides Web Hosting Packages Unlimited disk spaces and Unlimited Bandwith. But the problem is Inodes Limitation. if i run blog. forum and smf, i think it will exceed the quota and the account will be suspended. So, the result is, Unlimited space is unneccessary.

You won't be suspended - just they wont backup your account

[nkmanik]

Hey !! Thanks for your replying.
There are some post i found in this forum was talking about account suspend if inode limitd exceeded. How do u assure me that HG wont suspend my account ?? are u HG Staff ??

[GvilleRick]

The Terms of Service states:

7b.) INODES
The use of more than 50,000 inodes on any shared account may potentially result in suspension. Accounts found to be exceeding the 50,000 inode limit will automatically be removed from our backup system to avoid overusage. Every file (a webpage, image file, email, etc) on your account uses up 1 inode.

Sites that slightly exceed our inode limits are unlikely to be suspended; however, accounts that constantly create and delete large numbers of files on a regular basis, have hundreds of thousands of files, or cause file system damage may be flagged for review and/or suspension.
The primary cause of excessive inodes seems to be due to users leaving their catchall address enabled, but never checking their primary account mailbox. Over time, tens of thousands of messages (or more) build up, eventually pushing the account past our inode limit. To disable your default mailbox, login to cPanel and choose "Mail", then "Default Address", "Set Default Address", and then type in: :fail: No such user here

For clarification you can contact support and someone there should be able to answer any specific questions.

[cevamal]

Originally Posted by peter_anderson

You won't be suspended - just they wont backup your account

Nor will they let you back it up.

That's what kills me. Once you hit 40k inodes you can't run a cpanel backup you have to contact support to have them do it for you.

For all the big talk in this thread about how no one should depend on Hostgator's backups and that everyone should be running their own I'm surprised this isn't getting more attention.

I'd love to do my own backups. I can't.

[Chief Plasma]

Consider using rsync. Slow the first round but fast after that. (you will need ssh access for that btw)

I think it would help if backups could be done on a sub domain level via cpanel. Then the files would not be so big.

-cp

[mwr]

WordPress newbie here who would like to ask a few questions.

1. What's an inode?

2. How can you predict how many inodes you'll need for a wordpress site?

That will get me started :-)

Thanks...

[virtvir5]

1. From the Hostgator TOS (link at bottom of page): "Every file (a webpage, image file, email, etc) on your account uses up 1 inode." In fact, the way it's counted in cPanel, each directory also counts as an inode.

2. My own basic Wordpress installation comprises 633 files in 77 subdirectories. Of course there may be a few more in yours with any plug-ins, etc., but hardly enough to worry about since data is stored primarily in the database rather than in additional files.

[mwr]

Thanks, Richard!

How do people get over 50,000 inodes?

Do I assume correctly that the WordPress-site people hosting here at hostgator are very happy with the service and support?

[virtvir5]

Well, I'm up to 40,000+, but that's because I run five (5) different content management systems on my site for testing purposes, along with WordPress, My Headlines, and a few other odds and ends. I'm not sure how one would exceed 50,000 inodes with just a single main content environment, unless you never cleared your caches and old email.

I've only been here for about one month, but I'm certainly happy here so far, especially with the "user friendly" responsiveness of the support team. And I think it's fair to say that the general level of satisfaction is quite high. HG isn't shy about "letting it all hang out" in these forums. So you can judge for yourself.

[mwr]

Thanks again, Richard. I've created and managed dotnetnuke portals and some simple DreamWeaver and FrontPage sites, so I'm not a complete newbie at web stuff, but WordPress is new to me (as you can plainly see) so I have a lot to learn about it. I'm sure I can learn as I go, but I'd appreciate clarification on a few things.

1. Does the email you refer to mean email that's received into the email account(s) associated with the hosting plan? If so, that won't apply to me because it's my practice to keep email servers separate from my web hosting company/plan.

2. Is there maintenance I should/must do on a WordPress site (you mentioned clearing caches)?

3. Does WordPress have capability like dotnetnuke, such as:

- providing for content that's viewable only by specific users or types of users?

- ability to set up a menu structure with associated content? I'm thinking of using a WordPress site as a combination blog + "normal" website and am wondering if I'm going to feel too limited by that approach.

By the way, I see that you're from Canada. I've never been to Ontario but did take two trips to your Rockies a few years ago, between Calgary and Lake Louise, and boy was it beautiful - Kananaskis Country, Canmore, Banff, and Lake Louise. I know there's much more, but that was great.
http://ruthvenphotos.com/canada_sept2002
http://ruthvenphotos.com/canada_nov2002

[virtvir5]

1. I wasn't referring to any particular email or cache. It was just a general comment in response to your query about how anyone could possibily exceed the inode limit. Such things can build up over time if not cleared out once in a while, especially if you set up a "catch-all" email account and never get rid of the accumulated spam. Even then, it would take a while.

2. A basic WordPress installation just accumulates its stuff in the database, not in a big bunch of cached files. Other than occasional version updating and optimising the database, there's no great amount of maintenance involved.

3a. WordPress has built-in user "roles" with different priviliege levels: Administrator, Editor, Author, etc. In addition, there are special purpose plug-ins including at least one for managing user access to content. See here for one example.

3b. Wordpress isn't really a "portal", but it can be used in many different ways. It can be your primary site application or just one amongst many adjuncts. It's really up to you. You can see an example of the latter approach on my site (link below my sig) where it's just one item listed under "Discussion" in the nav menu.

--
The Rockies truly are beautiful. So is the Georgian Bay area where I'm retired. Curiously, many Canadians seem to prefer travelling abroad rather than in their own country. I've been to the Rockies many times (tend to prefer the Jasper area) and most of the people I meet there are from other countries -- Europe and Japan mostly.

[mike240se]

Originally Posted by lxndr

Hi Mike,

Many thanks for taking the time to retrieve the post which I must admit does clearly state there's a limit of 250,000. If that is actually the case then that is great news. I guess the thing that's worrying me is that I was given a different story from Live Support and via a ticket.

I'm going to raise another ticket and quote the GatorBrian post and hopefully get confirmation of the limit. Anyway, thanks again.

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Its been a long time but were you able to confirm this and get it cleared up?

I went over 50k inodes recently, then i deleted some spam in spamassasins folder and went down to 45k . my site should start backing up in HG's backups automatically again right?