TOS Update: INODES

[hostcurry]

And what are we supposed to use the 100 Gb space to , 50,000 inodes mean 2 mb file minimum, hey hey forget good programming , All CMS developeres listen, if you are depending on modules you are screwing web hosting services

[Serra]

Originally Posted by Varment

I guess I'm screwed, I have lot files and folders in three domains and one sub domain on one account - 1 CMS 3, Gallery2's, and 1 SMF forum. I never would have signed up with that kind of limit.

50k INODES is a lot of files. (Yes, I have an account with 5x that number of files in it myself) However, its fairly clear that HostGator really has no way to provide customers with what they are offering. It is simply impossible, at this time, to offer 100 or 200 gb of space for $14.95 a month. So, in order to make that work, they need to add other restrictions that make it possible to restrict users from using too many resources. Two of those, being CPU and INODES.

That isn't to say that HostGator is offering something that it is impossible to use, that isn't true at all. They are just offering something that is difficult to use, unless you have large files and a limited amount of traffic.

Sites that belong in the shared environment, will work fine on HostGator. Those that belong on dedicated solutions, often will exceed some of the restrictions, and should be on a dedicated solution. Its that simple.

Does HostGator's advertising bring in customers who are unaware that its actually impossible to use the space and bandwidth that is provided? Yes, it does. Is that wrong? Well, other companies use the exact same restrictions, so it seems fairly reasonable that they would know that there are other restrictions. Someone who is using 50K+ inodes is going to have problems no matter where they go. Someone who uses too much bandwidth is going to have problems no matter where they go.

[slapshotw]

Originally Posted by Varment

1 CMS 3, Gallery2's, and 1 SMF forum

You're not necessarily screwed. The CMS, Forum, and Gallery if configured a certain way will store all their files and information (and posts, for the Forum), in the database. Those database entries won't take up inodes.

[Varment]

I understand about sharing resources and I am on a shared plan, I only pay 10 bucks a month and for that I don't expect great customer service or great tech support but I do expect honesty and a reasonable amount of the stuff I singed up for. Why not limit per domain or if by account impose a reasonable amount maybe 100,000 for the hacthling account and then 200,000 for the baby and so on. On my local machine Gallery2 has something like 13,000+ files and folders, that is a lot, but most of those come from the locale folders but I can't change that I like Gallery2 my users like Gallery2 so I need to offer my users what they like even if it sucks for me. My last host had a limit of 300,000 files and I usually had around 200,000 files with 7 domains and 5 subdomains, the only reason I left them was because they had an off site Mysql server and page loading was murder waiting for my server to connect to another server to talk to the database, users didn't want to wait so I had to move to a new host that was faster for the end user. Anyway I think 50K is to low for per account. HG folks please reconsider this limit.
V

[kmaw]

Originally Posted by Varment

I guess I'm screwed, I have lot files and folders in three domains and one sub domain on one account - 1 CMS 3, Gallery2's, and 1 SMF forum. I never would have signed up with that kind of limit.

Really... did you check to see how many inodes you have or are you just assuming? My largest account has almost a similar setup and it only has 20,000.

[Varment]

I am a new user at HG and I have yet to get SSH so I can't get that info as of now, it would be nice to know the actual number that but at the moment I don't have it all I can do is go by the file and folder count from my local machine which one gallery2 install 7000+ files and 5000+ folders.
V

[phatchopolis]

Originally Posted by Varment

I am a new user at HG and I have yet to get SSH so I can't get that info as of now, it would be nice to know the actual number that but at the moment I don't have it all I can do is go by the file and folder count from my local machine which one gallery2 install 7000+ files and 5000+ folders.
V

You could submit a support ticket asking for the exact count.

[bfdexp]

I submitted for SSH access and they require a copy of your ID!!!! I might as well just submit the support ticket...

[Varment]

You shouldn't have to submit anything to find out, if they are going to impose a limit they should have already had previsions for users to check there numbers in the control panel. There seems to be a running theme here at HG - lack of thought and lack of care for the customers. Why not tell customers a change is coming maybe even take in some feed back and give a date for the change, and then carry out that change, instead of this in your face kinda crap I keep reading about. Its like "this changed today - deal with it".

I don't mean to rant but I thought I found a new home here but now I keep reading about all the bad stuff people are going thorough. HG is growing and I wanted to grow with it but it seems someone don't like growth and is sabotaging HG's future.
V

[Serra]

Originally Posted by Varment

I don't mean to rant but I thought I found a new home here but now I keep reading about all the bad stuff people are going thorough. HG is growing and I wanted to grow with it but it seems someone don't like growth and is sabotaging HG's future.

Keep in mind that 70% of the bad stuff that is happening to people is things they did themselves.

Also, things like CPU and INODES simply are not part of cPanel's design, HG can't rewrite cPanel to support its TOS. You are just lucky that HG tells you about these things. For a long time, this kind of stuff was NOT in the TOS and hosts would simply suspend people for "causing problems". (meaning too much space/bandwidth or CPU.)

It is good that HG is up front about it. Also, keep in mind that 50K inodes is a TON of inodes. I have users with Coppermine galleries that don't have even 10K inodes used.

[Serra]

Originally Posted by Varment

I am a new user at HG and I have yet to get SSH so I can't get that info as of now, it would be nice to know the actual number that but at the moment I don't have it all I can do is go by the file and folder count from my local machine which one gallery2 install 7000+ files and 5000+ folders.
V

Keep in mind you would need like 45,000 files to come close to 50K inodes in use. That is a TON of files. It appears that with 7000 + 5000, you have only 13K Inodes in use, less than a 5th of the total possible.

[Varment]

Originally Posted by Serra

Keep in mind that 70% of the bad stuff that is happening to people is things they did themselves..

I know people break the rules and try and blame others... Still a lot of legitimate unsatisfied customers, I know you can't please everybody...

Originally Posted by Serra

Also, things like CPU and INODES simply are not part of cPanel's design, HG can't rewrite cPanel to support its TOS. You are just lucky that HG tells you about these things. For a long time, this kind of stuff was NOT in the TOS and hosts would simply suspend people for "causing problems". (meaning too much space/bandwidth or CPU.)

If they can't write scripts to display a little information then someone is in over their head, and most of those other host have died or are dieing.

Originally Posted by Serra

It is good that HG is up front about it. Also, keep in mind that 50K inodes is a TON of inodes. I have users with Coppermine galleries that don't have even 10K inodes used

Coppermine doesn't come close to Gallery2

--------------------------

I don't mean to put HG down; they do a lot of things right, I think they need a lot of work when it comes to customer relations.
V

[billyen]

A simple way to check your INODE count without SSH. This is a manual process so takes longer than SSH but you'll probably only need to do it occasionally.

1) Take a Full Backup using cPanel. Leave the backup destination as "Home Directory". The backup file will be saved to your account's home directory (above public_html) on the server and will probably have a name like "backup-4.10.2007_03-12-49_YOUR-ACCOUNT-NAME.tar.gz". cPanel will automatically send you an email when the back-up process has finished.

2) Download the backup file into an empty sub-directory on your home computer.

3) Expand the backup using a decompression utility.

4) Analyse the decompressed backup with whatever file utility your computer uses. The total number of files in the decompressed directory including sub-directories should be the number of INODEs your account is using.

A bonus of this method is that you can check if your backups can be restored on your home computer.

And remember to backup regularly.

[psylenced]

Which directory is this meant to run from?

I ran it from the account root and got:

-jailshell-2.05b$ find . -printf "%i\n" | sort -u | wc -l
210948
-jailshell-2.05b$ ls
error_log gallery2data logs public_ftp ssl www
etc galleryupload mail public_html tmp

The only real thing i have on the account is a gallery 2 install with about 18,000 photos, and a few other smaller things.

Is there something that shows which folders are the offending ones?

[quietFinn]

Originally Posted by psylenced

Which directory is this meant to run from?

I ran it from the account root and got:

-jailshell-2.05b$ find . -printf "%i\n" | sort -u | wc -l
210948
-jailshell-2.05b$ ls
error_log gallery2data logs public_ftp ssl www
etc galleryupload mail public_html tmp

The only real thing i have on the account is a gallery 2 install with about 18,000 photos, and a few other smaller things.

Is there something that shows which folders are the offending ones?

That command counts inodes in current directory ( . ) and it's subdirectories.

if you do:

cd
cd gallery2data
find . -printf "%i\n" | sort -u | wc -l

you see inode usage in directory gallery2data

[psylenced]

I investigated further and it was definitely the gallery2 directory, specifically the cache directory, which is about 180,000 items.

The purpose of that is to cache all thumbnails/images so it doesnt have to re-create them from scratch (which uses up cpu).

Not sure how something made to lower cpu usage can also constitute a TOS violation, i'm guessing anyone with mid sized gallery installations will have this same issue too.

[GatorDaveC]

You don't need to necessarily be proactively worrying about your scripts going over the 50,000 limit. There aren't any hard limits or quotas in place, and it's not necessarily a hard and fast rule. When we do have a situation where someone is truly affecting the overall health of a server and degrading service for other users, we will simply use this limit as a guide to address that issue.

[psylenced]

Originally Posted by GatorDaveC

You don't need to necessarily be proactively worrying about your scripts going over the 50,000 limit. There aren't any hard limits or quotas in place, and it's not necessarily a hard and fast rule. When we do have a situation where someone is truly affecting the overall health of a server and degrading service for other users, we will simply use this limit as a guide to address that issue.

Ok thanks, that is a little bit better.

If its just a condition that helps you enforce abuses thats a bit better than having it enforced for all users as a blanket rule.

[Varment]

Originally Posted by GatorDaveC

You don't need to necessarily be proactively worrying about your scripts going over the 50,000 limit. There aren't any hard limits or quotas in place, and it's not necessarily a hard and fast rule. When we do have a situation where someone is truly affecting the overall health of a server and degrading service for other users, we will simply use this limit as a guide to address that issue.

That sounds pretty good and fair.

[psylenced]

Sorry, one more final point to check with you.

These accounts will still be back up as per normal unless you are specifically notified they are exceeding limits?

[GatorDaveC]

Originally Posted by psylenced

Sorry, one more final point to check with you.

These accounts will still be back up as per normal unless you are specifically notified they are exceeding limits?

[edit]: jshanley: Yes, the system stops backing up an account automatically if it's over 50,000 inodes. It did not originally do this when DaveC wrote this in 04/2007, but an account over 50,000 inodes is (currently) automatically skipped when it comes to backups. This is because the account is already violating the terms of service.

No we aren't going to stop backing up clients accounts. There has been only 1 case of this a couple of weeks ago which is one of the reasons why we added the inodes section to the TOS.

If infact your account was going to have backups stopped, we would inform you in an abuse e-mail. Don't get worried over this TOS update, if you are just hosting regular sites you will be fine.

[Darth Unrivaled]

Very disappointed in this. I guess the hunt for a new host starts again. I mean how can a webmaster run his site when limits like that? 50,000? Where was the notice? I don't troll these forums to know every little detail you guys do.

A simple email warning about this would have been nice. The only thing that makes me a bit happy is knowing I haven't gone over it yet. Because its the 14th and this was put out on the 6th.

I'm not being picky or anything. Dedicated hosting is too much for me to pay and would be a waste of my money for what little I really use.

[Serra]

Originally Posted by Darth Unrivaled

I'm not being picky or anything. Dedicated hosting is too much for me to pay and would be a waste of my money for what little I really use.

I agree, if you've never been suspended for over using the CPU, why would you even think you should go for a dedicated box. I mean the shared boxes are fine, if you aren't using too many resources and it is very difficult for a normal website to have over 50,000 files on it.

[Darth Unrivaled]

Originally Posted by Serra

I agree, if you've never been suspended for over using the CPU, why would you even think you should go for a dedicated box. I mean the shared boxes are fine, if you aren't using too many resources and it is very difficult for a normal website to have over 50,000 files on it.

I had a problem with CPU early on this year, but turn out it wasn't me on the box. The box I'm on still only gives me 20GB of space, which I only have used maybe 2GB of that. My gallery lone uses 20,000+ files. A little over 10,000 images, a thumbnail for each. thats little over 20,000 files not even counting the php files and olders its all in. My web site, its pages, my board, my other board (inactive; closed right now). I like to keep order so I sort my stuff into folders. I count the files on my computer (becuase unlike some I keep all my files on my computer, and back those up over leaving them on the server) and it easy was pushing 35,000 files + folders. And I'm not even sure if its only counting those but all the other files that where already on the server, mail and logs.

So yeah, an active site like mine could easy push over 50,000 easy in a few months or more. But knowing this, I'm not going to wait until it comes to that. I mean other then the download time I had and problems getting some small stuff fixed threw the support ticket. I say its been a good 2 years (well it'll be 2 years come October) but it seems every turn I make something forces me to move or upgrade to something I don't want or need. I mean I don't make money form my site, its a fan site, information and entertainment. I mean whats a guy to do?

[Serra]

Originally Posted by Darth Unrivaled

I mean whats a guy to do?

You can span two accounts...