Spam reporting...think before you click "Report Spam"

[davidb2002]

Hello:

I dont post alot in here but this is an issue that I recently have been giving some thought about as recently one of my customers accounts has been suspended do to spam reports.

Im not putting down HostGator in any sort of way, I just think that the process of dealing with spam reports needs to be refined.

My customers account was suspended sometime last night after Hostgator received Spam Reports that people were complaining about spam from my customers website. I work with my customer on a personal basis and I can vouch that the lists that he sends to does not breach the Mail Policy of HostGator. My customer and myself are both new to newsletters and email marketing, but we do keep up with the laws in our area. We know and understand that unsolicitated emails are illegal and that is also what SPAM is. The thing is, I don't think that the majority of the population thinks that is what SPAM is.

Many email software packages now have some sort of spam report option which allows the user to report spam. I believe that this combine with the misconception of what the true meaning of SPAM is has resulted in the suspension of my customers account and most likely many others across the internet.

So this is what we think has happened. My customer gathers his contact emails through multiple websites that he runs and networks that he is a part of. At no time does he purchase these emails and the owners of the information are notified that they will be contacted with special offers.

We believe that the reports have come from subscribers that think that SPAM is simply unwanted email that is selling something. Therefor they click the Report Spam button not knowing what it actually does. This sends a message to multple Spam Analysis websites in which Hostgator and many other sites are members of for quality control purposes (and to watch their own back). These websites then notify the host of these websites of the spam reports and from there its up to the host of what action should be taken.

At this point HostGator has a 0-tolerance policy when it comes to SPAM, which is understandable. Which resulted in the suspension of my customers website.

So...while we are requesting to get the website unsuspended anyone who opens our email now and tries to unsubscribe, can't because the site is suspended, therefor IF we send another to them, they may start the chain of improper Spam Reporting.

Many people may not see eye-to-eye with me, but lets put give a simple example.

You fill out a survey on the street one day 3 years ago or maybe last week. Most of the time, you don't remember what the survey was for or who the survey committee was. Most of these survey's have a box to exclude from marketing....most people miss that box. Next thing you know you get an email from someone from this committee...are you going to report them to spam? You might if you dont remember them and as far as you know they are just contacting you out of the nowhere.

Maybe some people do understand. I would like to know what others think.

[davidb2002]

Interesting view, but lets take this for instance:

I am an eBay member (as many people are) and I get emails from eBay constantly about great deals and such which I dont want...so does that make eBay a spammer? And if I report eBay to the Spam authorities, will eBay be restricted?

The fact is, no one is going to report eBay because they are eBay, yet they are doin the exact same thing as my client, contacting people who have given them their contact details and have agreed to allow ebay to send them marketing emails.

If you get google to define SPAM the word 'unsolicited' comes up alot. Which, fair enough seems to mean 'no-asked for'.

But by agreeing to terms and conditions in which state that we may contact you for marketing purposes, you are infact 'asking for it'.

I believe people report spam becuse they think that they are doin the world some good, and most of the time they are. BUT, when you get an email, that you have agreed to receive that allows you to opt-out, reporting that as spam is restricting those who have agreed to receive it for that reason of wanting that information.

People have different ideas of what SPAM is, and for those like my customer who are usering emailing techniques to marketing products to their client base, you will get people reporting you as SPAM...

So what is the best way to market to people via email without them reporting you as spam? Obvoiusly, they have to want it.

[ltrump]

failing to opt-out of e-mail marketing ploys does NOT mean the people have "agreed" to receive your e-mails.

Quit trying to hide around cutesy little phrases that mean absolutely NOTHING. Your "friend" has been sending out e-mails that MANY people have declared as SPAM. They are not going to suspend your account because 1 person has complained. MANY people have complained.

SPAM cops have caught your friend, and now he must be punished. Stop sending out SPAM, and his account wont be suspended. Simple as THAT!

[TeeJa]

The correct way to send out a news letter is give visitors to the website the option to sign up to receive a news letter, and also an option, embedded in each Email to a link to Opt. out of receiving the news letter. This way they are letting you know it's ok to send them an Email, but also give them the option of removing themselves from receiving an Email.

Grabbing Emails addresses from web sites and sending out Emails like that IS SPAM, clear and simple.

[Sergio]

Davidb2002:
This is a topic with a lot of different point of views, but one thing will be always the same "if you collect emails from different sources" it is considered spam.

As I see this is, if you have collected emails from one site, this site and only this site can send email to the people that has signed to receive it. Now, as an example, suppose that I have signed to receive emails from site A but the owner of that site owns site B, C and D, and then I receive an email from B (a site different from the one that I have signed on), for me it will be Spam and I will have the right to report it.

Just my 2 cents.

Regards,
Sergio

[davidb2002]

The customer of mine states in the Terms of Agreement and Privacy Policy that they may be marketed to in the future from partner companies. Obviously, hes not going to market for example, a hammer to a butcher.

My understanding of the spam reports is that they have received a couple of complaints, not alot, in which the account was suspended.

All of my customers sites are connected in interest and if you had a client base you would want to do the same thing. There is the option to opt-out, but I think the conclusion here is to make it more clear to the person who submits the data that they will receive marketing from site a, site b, and site c if they proceed with the submission but they will have the option to opt-out of the marketing.

Spam is unsolicited, if you get a credit card offer through the mail are you going to report them to the FCC? No, because you know somewhere down the line they got your details off someone you gave your details to. You may have not applied for a credit card in the first place, it could have been a survey or a prize drawing.

So why is it, that now days, where we get bombarded with tv adverts, newpaper adverts, mail drops and people knocking on our door that we only report those who utilise email for their marketing?

If we are going to crack down on email marketing, shouldnt we apply the same rules to all other forms of unwanted marketing?

Im not saying that im right, or anybody is right, I just think its a topic that seems to be blurred.

Nowdays, you would be stupid to think that every form you submit online wont result in some sort of makerting.

I think that most people jump the gun on spam reporting. The dont think first "how did they get my email address?", "is there a way to stop this coming to me?"...the report spam button is a quick fix.

You will find that those who get marketed to get it for a reason. Usually they submit a lot of information in alot of different websites on the internet. They may even have their email address posted somewhere online. Thats just asking for it.

The responsability is firstly in the visitors hands. "If i submit this data will I be marketed to? If so, do I want to be? If i do not want to be marketed to, should I proceed?". Then after that its the websites responsability to keep this information secure and to stick to their privacy policy, and ToA.

SPAM (unsolicited email marketing) IS BAD and ILLEGAL. Legal Email Marketing isnt. All email marketers are being labeled as spammers because thats what most people spam is, email selling things that I dont want. Read up on the laws and you will see that it states that marketing to a customer via email is legal as long as the customer has been notified prior to the marketing that it will happen and they have an option to opt-out at anytime.

Let's here what others have to say. Anyone else agree/disgree with some/all of what im saying?

[ltrump]

How about trying this example then.

Instead of having an opt-OUT option for your customers, have an opt-IN option so that if they WANT the marketing of your email adverts, then they can specifically sign up for it.

Of course I already know the answer to this. The whole reason opt-INs are not as common is because the marketer doesnt get enough email addresses that way. Most people will either not opt-in on purpose, or they just simply look over the box to check in order to opt-in.

No matter what you do in your email marketing scheme, you MUST be willing to accept that for some people, they will NOT want their email address used by you. BTW, Federal Law requires that you make sure that there is a VALID email address or Street address or VALID phone number available on all your marketing emails for people to opt out. I say this because you had said earlier that you were afraid that with the account suspended some people may believe that it is actual spam since they wouldnt be able to opt out due to that suspension. List your address and phone number so that people can contact you by phone or mailing address. That solves the problem of your customers not being able to opt out.

Here is another idea. Imagine yourself being a NON developer. Just someone on the internet doing a little bit of shopping at your site. How easy is it to actually see the information that you are talking about? Is the information about being marketed to actually easily accessed, or do you have to read lines and lines of normal terms of service before you actually get to the right part?

IF your friend is upstanding enough, then they will probably have NO problem putting that information directly on their shopping carts BEFORE the customer checks out. Of course, sales may decline, so they may not be willing to do that.

SPAM sucks.....make sure to market correctly and there will be no reason why the websites get suspended.

[davidb2002]

ltrump

Very good points and thank you for the suggestions.

My customer and I are working together to make sure that we do provide all this information in an easy to understand way and that customers are able to contact us.

The 1 email that my customer sent out did have address, phone, fax, email, and contact name.

We are refining the Terms of Agreement and making it very clear with a check box...fair enough its an opt-out not and opt-in (but in the end of the day, marketing is marketing):

[ ] check this box if you DO NOT wish to receive emails regarding products and services in the future.

As of now, it is only in the ToA but having it seperate gets strait to the point.

Thank you for the feedback. There is a right way of doin this, and to be honest, I think the way that my customer has done it, he has missed out on some important features such as the opt-out box at the first. Which difines maketing better than putting it in with to ToA only.

We believe that doin this will get rid of all spam reports...this after all was both of ours first email marketing email...so you learn from your mistakes. Now we are both determined to do it right and make sure that none of us are labeled spammers and the Host Gator is happy and everyone else on the server is happy as well.

[sammy]

Good morning. I was just reading the posts about spamming and thought I'd put my two cents in, for what that's worth.

I'm not so sure that what your friend did was wrong. These people often have willingly searched for, found, and visited your friend's websites. No one made them. Are they really that surprised that they receive an advertisement e-mail from a site or related site that they visited? I mean, at the end of the day, if you're going to have an e-mail address and you're going to surf the web and enter that address into different areas, don't you kind of have to expect to receive some e-mails you may not wish to spend time reading or sorting through? Online users don't seem to take enough responsibility for the role they play in this. Marketing is marketing. If you're going to a site to see what's free today , chances are you'll probably get some offers from others as well. You are entering your e-mail and other information about yourself, whether you realize it or not, on a public forum-the internet. Period. If you don't want people to find you and send you advertising, don't surf. And then what? What's next? Do we stop using billboards and lighted Golden Arches along the highway because someone doesn't want to see them? If the clerk at the counter of a fast food restaurant asks if you want fries with your hamburger when all you said was "Hamburger, please", have they just exhibited unsolicted solicitation? That's what the "delete" button is for on your e-mail, same as the off switch on your television and the channel button on your radio. I mean , really, you sign up to be part of the largest media on the face of the earth and then get mad when someone notices you? Personally, they need to grow up and quit whining about all the "spam" they have to sift through. If I don't want to be bothered with any particular e-mail, I don't give someone my address and if they get it anyway, I delete it without spending time reading it just so I can complain about it. And out of curiosity, if a non-profit organization sends an e-mail to ask for a donation that is tax-deductible, is it still considered spam? Just wondering. Sammy.

P.S. Who started the whole "SPAM" issue that resulted in it being illegal? And were they Republican or Democrat? Does anyone know?

[cjnoyes]

people who wish to do that kind of mailing should use one of the mailing services like Godaddy and it's resellers offer or other internet marketing companies, opt-in is the safest.

I think Gator is just being super careful so as to minimize their servers in spam lists and limit their exposure, a lot of hosting companies do this now.

The legal issue surfaces because people got fed up enough of the crap that was going out and pushed for laws.