site builder vs. site studio

[silvermoonlightjewelry]

I started building my site with site studio after I signed up with Hostgator because that is the only web builder I thought was offered. I have done a lot of work on my site but it is not finished. I just found out I can also use site builder and am wondering which would be better to use. I am NOT computer savy at all and it is taking me forever to do anything. Does anyone have any opinions on which is easier to use and better to use in the long run. I don't mind harder if it will look better eventually. I am having some trouble with site studio on getting some pictures to look right etc.
Thanks

[gwyneth]

There are much better (and easier options). If you're activated by the time you read this, here is a useful thread.

Site studio alternatives even novices can use

If you're not activated, I'm copying the main post from that thread:

Several recent threads have discussed a few of the issues associated with Site Studio/Site Builder.

These include (but aren't limited to) non-portability, quirky formatting, and trouble determining what to input so you get what you want.

While Site Studio seems to have one overwhelming advantage--the ability for even a total novice to publish a professional-looking page almost instantly--there are other ways for total beginners to achieve this.

IMO, one of the biggest drawbacks to using Site Studio is that it creates its own frustrations...leading novices to think 'if this is bad, the other ways must be even worse'.

Well, the other ways don't have to be worse, and offer much higher paybacks for the initial frustration, time, etc. that are inevitable even with Site Builder. And, ironically, it's much easier to find help when you're using the alternatives. (Hypothetical parallel--expert cookie makers wouldn't know the specific features of Cookeeze, the easy sleazy automatic cookie maker.)

One of the sites mentioned below discusses the issue here: Is It Better to Use an Online Site Builder or a Standalone Web Editor? (thesitewizard.com)

Believe me, you can do it. Here's how.

Option (or step) one

This site includes a very easy-to-follow set of explanations; an online page builder that lets you build and save to disk a simple page; and a free editor. There is help every step of the way.

* HTML for the Conceptually Challenged

Option (or step) two

Download NVU or KompoZer. (Note that these are essentially the same program, but one may work better than the other on your own system.) Complete handholding and getting started info is available at:

Nvu Tutorials (thesitewizard.com)

KompoZer Tutorials (thesitewizard.com)

The first link in each list gives you a step by step guide to get you through your first page. Other info shows you how to use the program with existing pages, such as...

Templates and more

Each of these sites has more easy-to-follow information and templates you can download and customize.

So, you want to make a web page

The Web Diner Introduces Your Web Adventure!

Iron Spider

Easy lessons

The first site has lessons for every aspect of web publishing, but this part is particularly valuable--a set of interactive page components ("HTML tags"):

HTML Examples (interactive)

This site, while downright cheesy-looking, does have some of the easiest-to-follow lessons anywhere:

44 HTML Lessons and Tutorials

[silvermoonlightjewelry]

Thanks, that is very helpful. I am not activated yet so thanks for pasting the info. I have dreamweaver on my computer and even bought dreamweaver for dummies but still haven't used or read it. I am scared I guess and wanted something up quick. A friend of mine told me about content based builders like Joomla so I am even more confused on which is easier and better between something like dreamweaver and joomla. So I just wanted easy and used site studio. My long range plan was to build it first with site studio and then learn dreamweaver and then when I am able do a website with it. But I want to start selling ASAP online so I wanted to get a website up the easiest way.

[gwyneth]

Originally Posted by silvermoonlightjewelry

Thanks, that is very helpful. I am not activated yet so thanks for pasting the info. I have dreamweaver on my computer and even bought dreamweaver for dummies but still haven't used or read it. I am scared I guess and wanted something up quick. A friend of mine told me about content based builders like Joomla so I am even more confused on which is easier and better between something like dreamweaver and joomla. So I just wanted easy and used site studio. My long range plan was to build it first with site studio and then learn dreamweaver and then when I am able do a website with it. But I want to start selling ASAP online so I wanted to get a website up the easiest way.

The method described in the post will be almost as easy as using Site Builder or Site Studio (easier and less time-consuming in some ways, like figuring out how to change things).

The problem with Site Builder or Site Studio is that you won't be able to convert directly (both being proprietary software), so at some point you'll have to redo it anyway.

In addition, using one of those two to build an ecommerce site seems like an excercise in futility (to me).

Either Kompozer or Nvu are similar in scope to Dreamweaver but a) free and b) much easier to use. IMO, either is also a better way to learn the innards of sites because, although you don't need to know anything about the mechanics to use one, they make it pretty easy to find out about the innards and see what's going on.

In addition, the sitewizard links above will literally walk you through the entire thing.

When I compiled the info in the thread, I did a fair amount of research/thinking about the absolutely easiest way to do a "first site". It was very frustrating to see people spend so much time with Site Builder and or Site Studio, only to realize later that they'd either have to start over--and that they didn't even learn much for all the enegry expended.

Later, you can modify pages created with K or N with any other program (sometimes Dreamweaver-created pages can be confusing when edited with other apps). K and N are pretty good in their own right, as applications (I did my first HTML work in 1994, have at least 30 editors on my main PC, and still sometimes find K or N useful).

[silvermoonlightjewelry]

Ok, thanks for the info it helps me a lot in trying to figure out what to do. I did research on forums and stuff when deciding on a web hoster and on how to build my site and saw the nvu and I think I may have even downloaded it. But I chickened out and just used site studio. I have a question, do you have an opinion if it is easier to use a content management site like Joomla or nvu? And what is the difference?
You have talked me into trying my own site building with nvu, I will read the tutorials etc. While I am doing that I at least have a partial site up with hostgator using site studio and people can log on and see it and email me if they want to order jewelry.

[gwyneth]

There are a lot of ways to achieve almost anything anybody wants to do with their site.

While some content management systems (CMS) may be easier for some people to use, IMO they may be harder to learn without at least a little HTML. In addition, choosing the right one is a task in itself, much easier after even a short time working with a site and pages.

Some CMSes are easier than others; WordPress, for example, might be much easier to pick up than Joomla.

All advice here or from anywhere else needs to consider your goal is not just building a site, but incorporating e-commerce. Combining a shopping cart and a CMS is still something of a patch job and even a few weeks of working with your site will help you understand things better.

Two of the more evolved combinations of CMS/shopping carts, IMO, are Viart/Viartcart and Drupal/Ubercart. The latter has the advantages of being free, able to use the many Drupal modules, and a terrific installation tool (the ubercart.org site has a web-based installer that pops in both Drupal and ubercart).

Of course, everybody has a different way of interfacing and learning, so it's important to learn enough so you feel comfortable deciding what you like and what's best for your purposes.

[silvermoonlightjewelry]

Ok, thanks. I guess I will look at nvo and what shopping cart works with it as I don't want anything too difficult. My plan was to use the zen shopping cart with the site studio and I am going to see if I can use it with nvo and if it is easy to do. I want one that is compatible with pay pal as that is what I plan to use. It sounds as if nvo will be better than Joomla at least for me. I will do some more research and read the links you gave me to make a decision I guess. I would like to learn how to do all that stuff anyway. And there are a lot of forums out there so if I have trouble surely someone will be able to help me. Especially with the hostgator form people will have ideas on stuff that works with host gator and how to upload etc.

[gwyneth]

Just to clarify--NVU, like Dreamweaver, is a tool rather than a web application; they're used on your PC to create or modify sites. Site Studio/Site Builder, CMSes, Zen cart are all web applications.

[silvermoonlightjewelry]

So does that mean I can't use zen cart with nvu as my shopping cart? Wow I have a lot of research to do to understand all this stuff.

[GvilleRick]

NVu is a program, just as DreamWeaver is a program, that you can use to create a website. You can certainly use Zen Cart with your website, you would just need to create the link in your main page to send users to Zen Cart to view and purchase items.

[gwyneth]

Originally Posted by GvilleRick

NVu is a program, just as DreamWeaver is a program, that you can use to create a website. You can certainly use Zen Cart with your website, you would just need to create the link in your main page to send users to Zen Cart to view and purchase items.

Thanks, Rick, I was trying to edit/expand my last post when we lost power.

silvermoonlightjewelry, think of NVU and DreamWeaver as being like Microsoft Word, or any other word processor. You keep them on your PC, and can either create sites and pages or edit sites and pages created with other applications.

Zen Cart and other shopping carts are web-based applications that let you create a set of pages that display products you're selling. These pages include all of the "active" parts of ecommerce--how the customer chooses products, how prices are totalled, etc.

While you can edit your Zen Cart (or other ecommerce program-created) pages in NVU or Dreamweaver, most people work with the "active" parts within the ecommerce program to minimize errors and keep the "active" stuff working.

Rick is suggesting you create the non-store part of your site in NVU/Dreamweaver, and the store part in Zen cart, then put a link from the non-store part to the store (like a hall from a museum to the gift shop).

One easy way to start with ecommerce is to create a site, then use Paypal buttons (found at the paypal site)...you make one for each product you're selling, and paste it into your pages.

A good method to minimize confusion may be to think about what you want to do, temporarily ignoring how to do it. That's how I teach artists/handcrafters to make their sites...get some paper and draw a rough sketch of how you envision your site, one sheet per page. Once you've visualized things, then start worrying about "how".

[striddy]

If you are new to website creating, I would certainly suggest Wordpress. To make installing easy, it is available in Cpanel / Fantastico.

You don't need to know any html, and you use it very much like a word processor.

Wordpress is free, and there are literally thousands of free themes to skin your site with and they can be changed anytime in the future. Also lots of useful plugins when you get a bit further down the track.

Don't think you can really go wrong with Wordpress.

[silvermoonlightjewelry]

Ok, I will sit down and work out each page of my site on paper and then figure out how after that. I like the idea of a paypal button for each item. I would rather incorporate the purchases into the site instead of redirecting it to another place which I guess zen cart does. But that may end up being the easier thing to do. I will have to figure it out. I checked out wordpress before but when I looked at it I thought it looked like something to use for blogs and not ecommerce. I must not have looked at it correctly and I will look at it again. I want to make it very user friendly for people when they want to purchase something and I have to research that side of what I should do also. I picture the shopping cart like most places I order from where people just click on a button to add to cart and then they can go to their cart and edit or check out with ease or go back and review the site with ease. Thanks for all the advice and any more advice you have is greatly appreciated.
thanks,
vicki

[Bluebonnet]

Originally Posted by striddy

If you are new to website creating, I would certainly suggest Wordpress. To make installing easy, it is available in Cpanel / Fantastico.

You don't need to know any html, and you use it very much like a word processor.

Wordpress is free, and there are literally thousands of free themes to skin your site with and they can be changed anytime in the future. Also lots of useful plugins when you get a bit further down the track.

Don't think you can really go wrong with Wordpress.

I did "go wrong" with WordPress. It has been a complete nightmare for me because I do not have a programming background. I have spent a huge amount of time over the past couple of weeks reading their (very disorganized) codex, forums and tutorials and still haven't accomplished a single thing. I have not seen any relationship whatsoever between WordPress and word processing software. It seems that every little task I want to do in WordPress (for example, something as simple as having the posts be in ascending instead of descending order) would require me to write code, and I do NOT know how to do that. As an example of another problem, their automatic update (the famous last words, click here to download) to version 2.9.1 doesn't work either unless you are able to write even more specialized code.

WordPress is overloaded with bells and whistles; for example, why would I want "thousands" of theme choices just to create a simple website?

I am now going to start reading everything I can about HostGator SiteBuilder and see if that would be a better choice for me as a novice. If SiteBuilder turns out to be what I really need, I am going to send the WordPress software to (a hot place) and not look back.

[striddy]

Originally Posted by Bluebonnet

It has been a complete nightmare for me because I do not have a programming background.

Huh... programming background. Since when is a programming background required?

Originally Posted by Bluebonnet

I have not seen any relationship whatsoever between WordPress and word processing software.

You simply type your content in a web form, then publish. What could possibly be easier?

Originally Posted by Bluebonnet

(for example, something as simple as having the posts be in ascending instead of descending order) would require me to write code

I have never seen anybody wanting posts ascending. I think you need to rethink your theory there. Consider somebody coming to your site after you have published a few hundred posts. The site visitor sees the first listed post as written in .... say Feb 2008. They think your site hasn't been updated in two years and just leaves. Newest posts must be listed first, not last.

Originally Posted by Bluebonnet

their automatic update (the famous last words, click here to download) to version 2.9.1 doesn't work either unless you are able to write even more specialized code

This is simply untrue.

Originally Posted by Bluebonnet

why would I want "thousands" of theme choices just to create a simple website?

Because there are thousands of people using WordPress. Can you image everyone using the same theme, hardly.

Originally Posted by Bluebonnet

I am now going to start reading everything I can about HostGator SiteBuilder and see if that would be a better choice for me as a novice. If SiteBuilder turns out to be what I really need, I am going to send the WordPress software to (a hot place) and not look back.

All the best with SiteBuilder. You'll need it.

[EarlyOut]

Originally Posted by striddy

All the best with SiteBuilder. You'll need it.

Sort of like jumping from a nice warm bath into a ditch full of dirty, icy slush.

[Bluebonnet]

Striddy, I don't want to get into an argument. I see that you are one of the people who are dedicated to WordPress and think it's great. I respectfully disagree.

About the programming background prerequiste: This is what I found when trying to use WordPress: For nearly every task I would have to understand how to write some code in html, CSS and/or php.

The reason I require posts to be in ascending order is that I wanted to use the WordPress blog format to write an e-book. Therefore the oldest posts would need to be displayed first, otherwise the story would come out backward. It appears that WordPress was not the right choice of software for my purposes. I am looking around now for some e-book compiler software.

I am telling the truth about the problem with updating to latest version of WordPress. I searched this problem on Google and found that others were having the same problem. The advice given on the WordPress.org forums was to write a line of code (the example provided was AddTypex-mapp-php5.php) at the end of the file to get the update to install successfully.

[wildweasel]

I have to agree with striddy, wordpress is a great tool for novice people. I have designed several sites for clients using wordpress and turned the sites over to the clients and they have been able to update them and add pictures and do anything else they want with no problems. They actually really like the edit and one button update of their site without having to use any outside software. I have two secretaries and two DJ's, using it everyday that have absolutely no knowledge of websites.

[striddy]

Originally Posted by Bluebonnet

I am telling the truth about the problem with updating to latest version of WordPress. I searched this problem on Google and found that others were having the same problem. The advice given on the WordPress.org forums was to write a line of code (the example provided was AddTypex-mapp-php5.php) at the end of the file to get the update to install successfully.

Did you use sitebuilder on your HG account before trying WordPress? Sitebuilder creates some entries in your .htaccess file which no website or CMS likes, let alone WordPress. You need to get rid of those entries. If you don't know how to fix that yourself, a ticket to HG will see it fixed in seconds.

Originally Posted by wildweasel

I have to agree with striddy, wordpress is a great tool for novice people. I have designed several sites for clients using wordpress and turned the sites over to the clients and they have been able to update them and add pictures and do anything else they want with no problems. They actually really like the edit and one button update of their site without having to use any outside software. I have two secretaries and two DJ's, using it everyday that have absolutely no knowledge of websites.

I rest my case.

[gwyneth]

Originally Posted by Bluebonnet

...

WordPress is overloaded with bells and whistles; for example, why would I want "thousands" of theme choices just to create a simple website?

The greater the selection, the higher the chance that one will do something specialized...for example, let you rearrange things into an e-book, or sort posts by different criteria.

Originally Posted by Bluebonnet

I am now going to start reading everything I can about HostGator SiteBuilder and see if that would be a better choice for me as a novice. If SiteBuilder turns out to be what I really need, I am going to send the WordPress software to (a hot place) and not look back.

In any case, remember that the results will not be portable. If you ever leave HG hosting, you will have to cut and paste the text into something else, because the code that puts it together is online and proprietary.

In Wordpress, you can move the entire Wordpress site to any other hosting firm. You can also make programmatic changes--which right now seems very undesirable to you. But the ability to do so is very important--for example, changing the sort option of your posts could be as simple as typing in a few lines in the right files. Yes, you don't know how, but the point is that with something like Wordpress, it's easy to find somebody to either do it or tell you what to do and how to do it.

Contrast to Sitebuilder: one recent post here discussed how the writer gave up after spending an entire evening trying to figure out how to put more space between the paragraphs.

While almost nothing is a true "time waster" when people are learning, that comes really close. That time doesn't help the user learn broader principles or anything useful for anything else.