Mail Limits

calum · #1 12-30-2007, 05:03 AM

Hello.

I just had a question, since my account just got suspended for sending/receiving over 200 emails per hour:

http://forums.hostgator.com/showthre...3960#post93960

So what actually counts as me sending an email?

I am 100% sure that sending one through php mail() does, but what else does?

And does anyone know why my account got suspended for receiving over 200 emails per hour and having catchall email enabled?

Because from my view that is actually receiving an email, not sending them. And nowhere in the ToS does it say catchall isn't allowed.

So what counts as sending an email? They say if I stop sending as many emails then I can have my account back, or upgrade to a dedicated server but that is too expensive for me.

Any advice?

Thanks
Calum

gtgeorge · #2 12-30-2007, 07:44 AM

Well so much for what I said in a previous post that stated that HG is not suspending abusers but moving them to a different server with other abusers.

I don't understand the 200 mail send limit causing a problem as cpanel is supposed to be able to impose a mail per hour limit by user. Unless the broken feature that Serra complained about in another thread is not working for HG?

calum · #3 12-30-2007, 07:48 AM

I have no idea, but they posted the logs with some messages with them.

Of course a few of them were things like welcome to my forum emails and confirmation emails sent my scripts, but that was under 10 an hour. All the rest were actually emails being sent TO me, so I wasn't sending anything.

But then catchall forwarded them to my main account, which supposedly counts as me sending an email

gtgeorge · #4 12-30-2007, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calum

I have no idea, but they posted the logs with some messages with them.

Of course a few of them were things like welcome to my forum emails and confirmation emails sent my scripts, but that was under 10 an hour. All the rest were actually emails being sent TO me, so I wasn't sending anything.

But then catchall forwarded them to my main account, which supposedly counts as me sending an email

I would agree to no catchall and get the account reinstated. I would then ask exactly how they are considering the catchall received emails as being sent?

kmaw · #5 12-30-2007, 07:55 AM

Seems people are being supposed now for exceeding the limits, rather than just getting error messages after the first 200 as before....

calum · #6 12-30-2007, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtgeorge

I would agree to no catchall and get the account reinstated. I would then ask exactly how they are considering the catchall received emails as being sent?

Yeah, I said I would prefer just to disable catchall than upgrade to a dedicated, those were my two options from them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmaw

Seems people are being supposed now for exceeding the limits, rather than just getting error messages after the first 200 as before....

Yep, its annoying though that the abuse department take so long to reply.

GvilleRick · #7 12-30-2007, 08:04 AM

As has been mentioned in several other threads, the catchall address is a very bad idea these days. Spammers regularly send messages to random addresses based on domain names they harvest and if there is a catchall the server will process all of those messages. I've watched mail queues in the past and seen hundreds of messages being sent to addresses like aaaa@somedomain.com, aaab@somedomain.com, etc. Given the nature of your websites (free forums, link directory, etc.) you are even more prone to get these types of messages so I would definitely get rid of the catchall so that the server will reject the messages up front and cause less server load.

ldearing · #8 12-30-2007, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calum

...were actually emails being sent TO me... But then catchall forwarded them to my main account...

thats what got you.... it is indeed sending when forwarding.... sorry.

i agree with suggestion about killing "catch all"... and on your add-on domains as well.

gtgeorge · #9 12-30-2007, 10:45 AM

This also may prove to be valuable info for others using forwarders. HG should clarify if that will be considered in the email sent per hour limit as that means every email received to the forward will also be 1 on the sent list! With the large amount of spam, anyone with a forward may be at risk?

GvilleRick · #10 12-30-2007, 12:20 PM

My guess would be that if the account was suspended it was due to causing problems with loads on the server rather than strictly due to the number of emails. It is easy to limit the number of emails sent through a server setting in the root WHM but not as easy to limit the number coming in (or forwarded to the catchall.) I would suspect that the server was showing high loads and when the techs checked they saw the number of emails coming in to the catchall.

calum · #11 12-30-2007, 02:12 PM

Ok, they said I am unsuspended as long as I prevent this from happening again.

They say I could stop my scripts sending mails, but disabling catchall is probably better.

Apparently it forwarded 6000 emails.

gtgeorge · #12 12-30-2007, 02:58 PM

Yep, with a catchall address a mail server could connect and send thousands running a dictionary attack to your domain. At least that is if the safeguards are not in place to stop such spam attacks.

Either way catchall is an outdated feature that really shouldn't be used. If you were to go with a dedicated, you would see the devistation a catchall could do with 6000 emails. Then think about if 200-300 others did the same thing.

calum · #13 12-30-2007, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtgeorge

Yep, with a catchall address a mail server could connect and send thousands running a dictionary attack to your domain. At least that is if the safeguards are not in place to stop such spam attacks.

Either way catchall is an outdated feature that really shouldn't be used. If you were to go with a dedicated, you would see the devistation a catchall could do with 6000 emails. Then think about if 200-300 others did the same thing.

Yeah, I am just waiting for my account to be re-enabled. The support person said they had done it but must have forgotten.

Then I will disable catchall and just create addressess for the ones I need.

I was also thinking about moving all my email to Gmail, is that a good idea?

Thanks

Pazeh · #14 12-30-2007, 04:04 PM

I talked with live chat about this & after he said that the receiving email is counted in the 200 emails / hr / domain limit, he said.-

Quote:

I apologize, i have misinformed you. Incoming emails are not included.

After I told him that this is MORE confusing, I sent him the url of your review on the forum & after waiting for a couple of minutes he came back & said

Quote:

I have verified with an administrator, the 200 limit does not include incoming mail.

slapshotw · #15 12-30-2007, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calum

I was also thinking about moving all my email to Gmail, is that a good idea?

Yes, if you want similar functionality to the catchall. Read my post here:

http://forums.hostgator.com/showthre...3916#post93916

calum · #16 12-31-2007, 05:09 AM

Ok I have disabled catchall now.

But if I used Gmail for all my mail will any of it even go through HG?

So if I send email from my gmail, but the domain is hosted at HG but with different MX records then will it go through HG?

slapshotw · #17 12-31-2007, 05:12 AM

Make sure you're clear about the difference between using *gmail* as a catch-all solution, and using Google Apps for your domain. If you're talking about switching MX records, that's Google Apps, not gmail.

And if you do use Google Apps and switch your MX records, none of your mail will ever go to HG.

calum · #18 12-31-2007, 05:35 AM

I am not going to use a catchall even with it.

I am changing MX records so I am using Google Apps, sorry for the confusion.

It seems to have worked now.

ldearing · #19 12-31-2007, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calum

... also thinking about moving all my email to Gmail, is that a good idea?...

(assuming google apps from later posts) this is definitely a good idea... always good to keep your main operating email far and away from your hosting accounts.

calum · #20 12-31-2007, 07:43 AM

So if I changed the MX records for my domains from within cPanel, I assume that if my hosting at HG was down my email wouldn't work since it has to get the MX record from HG?

Or does it not work like that?

ldearing · #21 12-31-2007, 08:00 AM

we probably need clarification here, but i believe if your DNS records are housed with HG they would continue answereing all DNS requests including MX. its just that mail and hosting accounts at HG do not work when suspended...

but going forward with this assumption then yes, your email at google would work fine... HG DNS servers answer an MX request and returns the mailserver for your MX record... if it returns googles mailserver for those requests, you should be fine....as slapshotw said, the email itself wont travel through HG at all.

calum · #22 12-31-2007, 08:15 AM

Ok.

So if I just change the MX records for all my domains to go to Google's servers.

But if my account was suspended or the whole server was down, would the MX records still be there and pointing to the Google servers.

ldearing · #23 12-31-2007, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calum

...just change the MX records for all my domains to go to Google's servers....

yes

Quote:

Originally Posted by calum

...if my account was suspended... or the whole server was down, would the MX records still be there and pointing to the Google servers.

suspended... this is where you want HG official answer... i do not belive they take out your zone records from DNS during a suspension....but verify this.....

if whole server down... thats a problem on shared hosting as your primary and secondary nameservers are indeed YOUR SERVER.

the option there is to either manage your DNS zones yourself elsewhere... or add a secondary dns service for additional nameservers. then if your 1st and 2nd nameservers unavailable (down) your third namserver (offsite) would recieve requests for your domain.

slapshotw · #24 12-31-2007, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calum

So if I changed the MX records for my domains from within cPanel, I assume that if my hosting at HG was down my email wouldn't work since it has to get the MX record from HG?

In other threads before I've talked about the benefits of Redundant Nameservers and backup MX servers for this exact reason. They are very cheap, and mean that your DNS isn't all located on the Hostgator server.

bta · #25 05-07-2009, 07:58 AM

It wouldnt take much to chew up 200 if you had them set to forward to a catchall.

Its not different to a phone call you have forwarded to another number. It counts as a call OUT of the first one it landed at.

I'm a bit concerned about 64 Mb? on the PHP though. Is that monthly? Or at any one time?