Limited Overselling suggestion

[hostfad]

I think HG should look into allowing the overselling of 100% or so, more then the persons disk space and bandwidth allotments.

So just say someone is using 10% of their bandwidth/disk space allotment and then oversells 100% that will make it a 20% total. This will allow the reseller to make money and offer low prices. You could even put a monthly fee on this of like $2 extra or something.

This would increase sales for HG(create more long term customers too) and for HG's reseller customers while keeping the server resources low too..

I would really like some constructive feedback on this, instead of being shutdown and told "we don't offer overselling" and thats all that comes of this.

Please no one flame this topic. Keep all unhelpful rants out of this topic.

thanks,
Brett

[hostfad]

wow you have a chip on your shoulder.

From your statements, I assume you are totally clueless about the hosting business and how it is managed, so I'll go slow so you can keep up. Feel free to ask me to explain if you don't understand any of this.

I don't goto your site and say you have no clue about web design.

As for customer loyalty, that would suffer as well. Managing a server with 100% reseller overselling would be close to impossible as servers could potentially fill up overnight.

Well 100% was just a figure, it could be 20% even and maybe hostgator could allocate servers for overselling...

So, "they don't offer overselling", never will and if they do, you need to run away like you just lit the fuse on a cheap Chinese firework the size of a dog house.

I'm sure HostGator would do it right and limit the amount of overselling. Don't you?

Twice as many accounts would mean that each reseller would take close to 100% more CPU. That would mean that fewer resellers could be on one machine, thus, less profit for HG.

You would be able to choose whether or not you're on an overselling server.

How would allowing reselling customers to oversell by 100% increase sales for its customers?

Again, 100% was just a figure. People signup to HG and then leave once they findout reselling is not allowed, so HG does all that work to setup the account (if they request an account transfer from another reseller) which costs them money and then they have to give the money back to the customer under the money-back-guarantee they have. So it's a lose lose situation for HG in some cases.

Thanks for the feedback, it has helped to make this suggestion better, even though you're being quite pessimistic.

[slapshotw]

Originally Posted by hostfad

I'm sure HostGator would do it right and limit the amount of overselling. Don't you?

Just as an FYI, I'm not sure this is possible with the current cPanel version. On my cPanel server, I can grant overselling or not to a reseller. There isn't an option to give it only to a certain %.

[hostfad]

I know that. HostGator would need to modify the script.

What are your thoughts on this though?

[Sam]

Originally Posted by hostfad

What are your thoughts on this though?

That HG shouldn't do it...

[gtgeorge]

Originally Posted by hostfad

I know that. HostGator would need to modify the script.

What are your thoughts on this though?

My thoughts are that it would destroy the reliability of the reseller servers as customers see them now. I was a reseller and while I was not happy with not being able to oversell, I soon understood the reasoning and learned to work with what I had. I won't say HG will never do it, but I am a firm believer it would cause poor performance if they did.

[WebhouseUK]

I think it would be more work than it is worth for HG ot allow overselling. Right now there is a good hassle free system that works just fine. Overselling would require effort & juggling skills, so there must be the old 'if it aint broke, don't try to fix it' philosophy in place here, which is fine by me.

I used to use IXwebhosting who way oversold on their hosting. I tell you, one of my customer's e-commerce sites was down more often than it was up!

[Goddess Dix]

Originally Posted by Serra

Actually, overselling has not effect on performance or uptime. It is simply a function of space and CPU management. Allowing resellers to oversell has nothing to do with a companies' police of overselling. They are not really related. Reseller overselling is simply a management component.

not directly, although i will say that i've seen a significant difference between hosts that allow overselling and those that don't with performance and uptime. because the hosts that do allow overselling seem to be the ones that have the overloaded boxes that perform poorly. can you say "blacklists," anyone? overall, i think it's indicative of how they manage their resources.

there are plenty of hosts that allow overselling for your $25/month or whatever.

[YukonMaster]

If they were to add this, I would make it an addon, charge them 20-30$ a month more for overselling, and put them on a seperate box, the extra fee would cover the server and other costs more than enough while there are less resellers on a box, this way performance can still be optimal and everyone is happy.

[hostfad]

If they were to add this, I would make it an addon, charge them 20-30$ a month more for overselling, and put them on a seperate box, the extra fee would cover the server and other costs more than enough while there are less resellers on a box, this way performance can still be optimal and everyone is happy.

This guy actually read what i said. Thankyou . And he added some too

It is not pessimistic, its simply the way it is.

You ARE pessimistic, the guy in my above quote is optimistic.

True, but I didn't come here and post something that indicates I don't know anything about web design either. The hosting business is very complex and very competitive. Following your suggestion would put this company out of business, so I'd have to say, you don't understand how it works or you actually work for another company and are just trying to get this one to fail.

You posted your site in your signature. If you actually read this suggestion and all the replies to it, surely you would have enough brains to figure out that this wouldn't effect people that don't want overselling and there would be a surcharge for overselling, you might as well read YukonMaster's post.. he sums it up quite well...

[tonyxcom]

I think its fine that HG doesn't allow overselling. They should just say so before you signup.

But I think the entire "no overselling" argument from some of the resident personalties is pretty ironic considering that the only way to get put on a box that isn't oversold is to get a dedicated box.

The thing that irks me the most is that my sites on the reseller server are SLOWER then they were on the shared server I was on. Luck of the draw I guess, but at least Brett is working with me on it. It's the customer service that kept me here.

[abe]

In a word... Well, in a domain:
http://www.unlimband.com/


No, I don't have any affiliate with this site.... It just makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside

[EarlyOut]

That site is so confused about so many things, it's hard to know where to start....

[firebugmichelle]

I often wish for the overselling thing too. ... I do not want to use up my resources or set unsustainable low prices. But I do have a few personal sites that I would just like to set high limits for and let them grow at their own pace.

I can see some good reasons for HG to say no overselling. ... But I can also think of ways around each of those reasons.

I actually did leave hostgator for a while because the no overselling thing made me feel cheated. But the hosts I went to had horrible support, so I came back.

[supernix]

Actually overselling is a great thing and that is why HostGator does it themselves. It is hypocritical to condemn the practice then engage in it for one's self. It all boils down to not wanting to give your customer a competing edge.

[EarlyOut]

There's a difference. HG can offer unlimited space, for example, because if a user really does set up a website that uses a huge amount of disk space, HG can keep adding storage space to accommodate that user (as long as he's not violating other account limits, like inodes).

But a reseller can't do that. A reseller has a fixed amount of storage space. If he offers his customers unlimited storage space, it's almost fraudulent. He's gambling that no user will actually push the boundaries. If a user does exceed the limits, the reseller has no ready means of accommodating him.

I suppose HG could offer a different type of reseller account, perhaps one on which you could purchase more storage space or bandwidth as needed. But that's a different discussion.

[supernix]

The problem with your idea is that a reseller can do exactly what your talking about. A reseller most definitely can add more disk space by purchasing upgrades to his account, or moving to a dedicated box or vps whichever floats his boat.

It is just as fraudulent and gambling as HostGator and what they do. You can do just what they do and monitor your clients regular and head off problems. Don't think for one minute if you tried to use unlimited disk space or even bandwidth that the HostGator team would not take the persons account down and suspend it. It is only unlimited if you don't try to use it.

[EarlyOut]

Originally Posted by supernix

Don't think for one minute if you tried to use unlimited disk space or even bandwidth that the HostGator team would not take the persons account down and suspend it.

I don't believe this - I think you're asserting something with no evidence. You're accusing HG of commercial fraud, and I think you need to be able to back that up with something more than a hunch.

The catch, of course, is that because of other limitations on an account like inodes and CPU usage, coupled with the fact that you're not allowed unlimited storage space, but only unlimited space for files that are being used for your websites, there are some very practical limits to how much space and bandwidth you could actually use.

[supernix]

Actually EarlyOut this is not my first venture into these forums. I have been a HostGator client for a very long time and have seen the complaints by people about being suspended due to high bandwidth and such. I did not copy the particular posts from the past into an archive. I have however read them.
HostGators out is that when you sign up you agree not to use but so much CPU and can't have more than X inodes used and such. So that is the technical out for them. If you have a site that is popular and gets load of hits you will use of course the max CPU allowed and then be forced to get a dedicated server or not have an account.
So see they advertise unlimited but know that the TOS will cover them if someone does have a large site.
Some people might call this fraud but in America it is just business. Advertise something that pulls them in even if what they are thinking they will get is not exactly what they end up with so long as everyone is happy.
Cingular (now ATT) once advertised unlimited nights and weekends but actually you only had around 1,500 minutes nights and weekends, but to them that meant unlimited in their eyes by their definitions. Customers bought it hook line and sinker and the company made big money even though the minute packages were not really infinite.

[EarlyOut]

Originally Posted by supernix

If you have a site that is popular and gets load of hits you will use of course the max CPU allowed....

Accessing static HTML pages consumes almost no CPU. But if your pages are dynamic then, yes, you will hit the CPU limits.

People say they're being suspended for using too much space or bandwidth. They're actually being suspended for violating the TOS in some other way. They're upset because they thought "unlimited" meant "with no limits on anything," whereas the terms are fairly explicit about what "unlimited" refers to.

Sure, "unlimited" is a marketing gimmick. But just because people can't or won't read doesn't make the offer untrue.

[EarlyOut]

By the way, just to be sure I'm understanding you correctly, are you saying that HG is lying about offering unlimited website space and bandwidth, and that you, as a reseller, think you should be permitted to tell the same lie?

[supernix]

Actually your still wrong html or PHP or PERL for that matter does not matter how the page is generated it still uses CPU and bandwidth the only question is which one will cause you to violate the TOS. No matter what page generation language you use it is still not unlimited.
Like you said using the word unlimited is a marketing gimmick and is very popular and effective that is why HostGator dropped the stance that they would never do it. The didn't change the laws of reality and discover unlimited drives and bandwidth cable. They just joined a marketing strategy that seems to work great but they don't wish to allow their resellers to harness the same power for obvious reasons.
Actually it is not a matter of lying just of using effective strategy.
If you can't understand that then it does boil down to a lie. Does not make it true that it is a lie just means you have some learning to do.
They actually never fail to live up to their terms of the TOS so obviously they don't lie. I have no doubt the customer that gets popular and hits that limit and is told that they will have to get a dedicated server after buying into the unlimited marketing tactic feels lied to.
Nothing is stopping anyone of us from purchasing a dedicated server practicing good business tactics and becoming the next HostGator. It is just a matter of finding a tactic that can't be beat.
Like I said I have been a customer for longer than most. My account at first was something like only 500mb or so as I recall then I remember being bumped up to 750mb and so on.