help in making up my mind about

[kloomis]

I am an independent web designer that offers hosting service, mostly to my web design clients. On average, I am hosting about a dozen domains. In the 10+ years that I have been doing this, I have gone thru four different hosting companies. In reading "Customer Reviews" forum, I realize that my experience was not that unique. Hosting company starts out great (personal involvement of owner), company grows (takes on support staff that is less knowledgeable than owner), company over extends its resources (owner no where to be found), company starts to delineate their customers (big guys get all the attention), company raises pricing and lowers quality of support for entry level customers (no need for new accounts, and I suspect the "big guys" and the owner are off playing golf).

This has happened to me 3 times. And now it seems to be happening again, but this time it's with a hosting coming that seems to have fallen short of their growth projections and is losing their commitment to this business. I have been casually looking for a new hosting company for several months, but had just about given up on finding a hosting service with enough of my needs/desires met to warrant making the switch. Last week I stumbled upon HostGator, because a new client has her domain hosted here.

The way I run my hosting service is probably different than most. My clients are people that want nothing to do with the management side of having a web site. I do not think any of them over the years has even looked at their user cpanels. When they want a new email address they contact me. Only one or two even have their own FTP account.

I have installed Gallery for two of my artist clients, but they can barely upload pictures, let alone customize Gallery. So I even do that for them. The same holds for a guestbook and a blog. I also ran a bulletin board using phpbb.

If I decide to move to HostGator (or any other hosting company for that matter), I will be doing all the work associated with transferring each domain. with my current host, I can set up a new domain and I have a way to access that domain via http and ftp before the name servers are updated. So if I start hosting a new domain, I can have everything setup and running on both hosts and then change the name servers and as the migration takes place, the transition is almost completely invisible to visitors. This works for all but a few php applications that require the the name server migration be complete, i.e., Gallery and osCommerce.

My plan would be to move one domain at a time. I would contact my client and tell them that the transition will take about 2 days and ask them to forestall any updates to their web pages, gallery and oscommerce. Then I would move over all the static files and set up all the email accounts. When everything is setup, I would, in the middle of the night, set up a "Service Temporarily Interrupted" index page and set up any php apps and transfer the associated MySQL databases. At this point I would change the name servers and do the final configurations for the php apps.

I just need to know if this is possible with HostGator. I'd also like to know from others that have done this, if my strategy seems feasible. Or, is there a better way. And, are there any gotchas I am missing.

Finally, I know that the scenario I describe lends itself to a reseller account, but money is really tight right now. As far as I can tell, the biggest difference, besides disk space and bandwidth, between the "Baby" Shared hosting plan and the "Aluminum" Reseller hosting plan, is the WMH. It occurs to me that since none of my clients use their cpanel, I could get by with the "Baby" account. One concern would be how easy things would be to migrate from a "Baby" to an "Aluminum" account if the hosting side of my business grows. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Please excuse my rambling. It is so nice to have a forum of current customers to bounce ideas off and find solutions. That alone may be enough to get me to switch hosts, so thanks in advance to your replies.

Ken

[Sam]

Originally Posted by kloomis

It occurs to me that since none of my clients use their cpanel, I could get by with the "Baby" account.

You Can't resell on a shared hosting plan. www.hostgator.com/tos.shtml

You need a reseller account for that

[kmaw]

Originally Posted by kloomis

Hosting company starts out great (personal involvement of owner), company grows (takes on support staff that is less knowledgeable than owner), company over extends its resources (owner no where to be found), company starts to delineate their customers (big guys get all the attention), company raises pricing and lowers quality of support for entry level customers (no need for new accounts, and I suspect the "big guys" and the owner are off playing golf).

HG's owner, Brent, is quite involved... not as much as he used to be... but still very involved for a company that has as many clients as HG does... you'll see him posting here on the forum... if not, he always welcomes emails and comments... there's an example here currently going on where he gave a client his cell phone number so he could call anytime and get connected directly (looks like he got called in the middle of the night)

Originally Posted by kloomis

The way I run my hosting service is probably different than most. My clients are people that want nothing to do with the management side of having a web site. I do not think any of them over the years has even looked at their user cpanels. When they want a new email address they contact me. Only one or two even have their own FTP account.

Many of us do such functions and act more as value added companies rather than just 'reselling hosting'

Originally Posted by kloomis

I just need to know if this is possible with HostGator. I'd also like to know from others that have done this, if my strategy seems feasible. Or, is there a better way. And, are there any gotchas I am missing.

Many of us have moved from previous hosts and are very willing to help... quite a few users on here, including myself, have been here for over two years and have moved from reseller to dedicated hosting with HG...

HG will also move sites from your previous host (up to 20 I believe) and it happens to be much easier if you were on a cpanel host before...

Originally Posted by kloomis

Please excuse my rambling. It is so nice to have a forum of current customers to bounce ideas off and find solutions. That alone may be enough to get me to switch hosts, so thanks in advance to your replies.

No problem, we love to hear from you

[kloomis]

Thanks.

Sam - I guess that helps me make up my mind pretty clearly. I will definitely need a reseller account. The 24 GB disk space was just a little discouraging, but I guess I'll have to work around that.

kmaw - I can see that Brent is involved now, but so was the owner of my next to last hosting company. When I started with them, he would often answer the tech support line himself. And, it was evident that he knew more about the tech side of his business than any of the other tech support staff, who were pretty good but not quite as good as the owner. Over time, he became less involved. hmmm

Brent, is quite involved... not as much as he used to be

That was how it started with that other hosting company, but it went almost unnoticed because the support staff had been trained by the owner. But as time went by, the front line support staff got promoted and new support people got trained by these guys rather than the owner. And, as the company grew, the gap between the owner and the front line support people just got bigger and bigger and the owner's vision of how the customer should be treated got watered down and the corporate culture got lost among people that were just doing their jobs. I've seen the same thing happen, from the outside and the inside, at several different fast-growing companies, including Apple Computer where I worked in the 80's and 90's.

Hopefully, that won't happen at HG.

Sam, you mentioned:

it happens to be much easier if you were on a cpanel host before...

Yes, I was on a cpanel host and that brings up another question. With the cpanel, I could activate/deactivate almost all of the services I had available. I could also set up custom configurations that I could use to quickly set up new domains. I went thru the WHM and it seemed like "packages" would handle the configurations concept, but I didn't get that I had a lot of control over how a new domain would be set up or how I would customize the "packages". Will the WMH let me do that?

And, thanks for the mention of being a "value added company" as that fits me a lot better than "reseller."

Thanks again,
Ken

[Sam]

Originally Posted by kloomis

Sam, you mentioned:

Should be:

kmaw, you mentioned:

[kloomis]

Oops, kmaw, my bad.

Ken

[Goddess Dix]

Originally Posted by kloomis

The way I run my hosting service is probably different than most. My clients are people that want nothing to do with the management side of having a web site.

That's not uncommon for us web designers turned hosts, I think. You tend to have a different type of business than the straight hosting places.

If I decide to move to HostGator (or any other hosting company for that matter), I will be doing all the work associated with transferring each domain. with my current host, I can set up a new domain and I have a way to access that domain via http and ftp before the name servers are updated.

I just need to know if this is possible with HostGator. I'd also like to know from others that have done this, if my strategy seems feasible. Or, is there a better way. And, are there any gotchas I am missing.

HG will move them all for you, and you'll be glad you did it that way. I've done the host-moving dance many times myself, and the move to HG with them doing my accounts was by FAR the easiest transition ever. Highly recommended. If HG moves you, you'll probably have to tweak your database stuff in the cpanel to add the user you need and attach it to the database your using, and make sure you config files for your apps are edited as needed, but it sounds like you've got a good handle on it. I like to give about a week of overlap between services when I move hosting accounts to allow to work out any issues that may come up.

Just remind your customers to stay out of the way, do your transfer request, and you'll be able to access the new server via ip or, once your main domain is transfered, client sites can be seen at yourmaindomain.com/~clientusername. It's no doubt very similar to what you have on your current hosting with cpanel.

One concern would be how easy things would be to migrate from a "Baby" to an "Aluminum" account if the hosting side of my business grows. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

As other's mentioned, you need a reseller account for this. The WHM will actually make it considerably easier for you to manage your clients and you'll appreciate the extra management features. It's very easy to upgrade your account whenever you need to, and won't involve any disruption for your or your clients. You make the request and they change your package, from what I can tell. And if you grow your hosting and get ready to move up to a dedicated, your WHM experience will help you as well.
[/quote]

I am coming from the web design side too, and have had probably a dozen hosting companies in the past few years. I've been with HG since maybe Feb of this year? Somethign like that and have NOT regretted it for a second. While the company is big enough now that Brent isn't personally involved in every account, he is around, he's honest about what's going on with the business, and I do feel like he and the company overall is quite responsive to client needs. Even the fact there IS a review forum that does not kill negative reviews was actually a strong selling point for me, because that takes some guts, you know?

Hope you join us, and if you have problems with your move, post in the forums. There are lots of helpful folks here who are happy to lend a hand when needed.

[Goddess Dix]

Originally Posted by kloomis

I didn't get that I had a lot of control over how a new domain would be set up or how I would customize the "packages". Will the WMH let me do that?

missed this. yeah, you have a lot of control. it takes a little digging in whm to learn you way around, but you can set up feature sets and attach them to packages, and customize them even after you assign packages by domain if you want.

[kloomis]

Thnx, Goddess.

I'm pretty sure I am going to move over to HostGator. I just need to confirm with my partner.

As I get closer to making the decision, I am reminded of why I have put this move off. As can be inferred from my initial post, most of my clients avoid the technical aspects of having a web site. That includes setting up their email clients.

With my current hosting company, I avoided some of the headache of making a move to a new hosting company because I was able to customize the name of my mail server and ftp server for each domain. That way, they didn't have to change anything and the move was completely transparent for them.

Can I do that with HostGator?

Also, I originally offered squirrelmail for my web mail solution as it was supplied by the hosting company. Recently, I installed V-Mail, with MySQL features, and am transitioning my clients to that because it is a more full featured webmail system and I can install that on my main domain and let all my clients access their email from that single installation. And, it sends my clients thru one of my website pages which I use as a kinda portal page for my clients. Whereas, with squirrelmail, each domain needs it installed for their domain.

I don't understand all the technical particulars of how this works, but I think it works because the mail server is shared and all the email is kept separate because they use their email address as their user name.

Can a reseller account work this way with V-Mail?

Also, I have never used horde or round cube, so maybe they can handle webmail the same way, but it'd be nice to know that beforehand if anyone else knows.

TIA,
Ken

[Goddess Dix]

Originally Posted by kloomis

With my current hosting company, I avoided some of the headache of making a move to a new hosting company because I was able to customize the name of my mail server and ftp server for each domain. That way, they didn't have to change anything and the move was completely transparent for them.

Can I do that with HostGator?

yeah, the mail server aliases will move with the other files when you do a transfer.

Recently, I installed V-Mail, with MySQL features, and am transitioning my clients to that because it is a more full featured webmail system and I can install that on my main domain and let all my clients access their email from that single installation.

i don't know anything about vmail so i can't help you with that specifically, but basically, if you could do it on your old cpanel host, you will probably be able to do it here. i know resellers have installed squirrelmail that way, from what i've read. when you get full forum access, do some searches on it and you'll probably the info you need.