Fast alligators

[Look]

My hosted websites/cPanels were all down for awhile this morning.
Ftp was working for the websites, and WebHost Manager was also working.

However, as soon as I contacted chat support the websites were all back up and working.

Just goes to show that our charming host alligators are all very very fast, or maybe I just need to go back to bed!?

[TT1]

Well, lucky you! I currently cannot add an account nor unpark a domain and who knows what else.

I reported this problem yesterday, and so far all I've gotten is two emails telling me the problem is fixed. The problem is NOT fixed, and HostGator has become completely unresponsive.

I have emailed several times, but apparently there is no Tech Support on Sundays.

Phone support, as you probably know, is useless. All they do is tell you to email their third-party support agency.

I've been a customer for under two months. I'm NOT impressed. Three weeks ago a Trojan horse was planted on my site, thanks to HostGator not installing the patch in a timely manner.

Now this crap, which makes me look real good to my client.

"Sorry, I can't get your website started today because, um, my hosting reseller doesn't do tech support on Sundays, or maybe they are too swamped with other problems, or maybe they don't know how to solve the problem at all. I can't tell because they don't respond to emails."

So, I am spending the day shopping for a reseller with an actual tech support department and not a "virtual" one.

[slapshotw]

They have 24 hour support, and don't use a 3rd party support agency. You've tried both submitting a ticket and using live chat?

In addition, HG actually discovered the cPanel exploit and was the reason cPanel was able to issue a patch so quickly. HG was by far the first host to have a solution to the problem.

-Matt

[TT1]

I don't think this problem has anything to do with that.

HG insists that I created the problem by adding this new domain as an "addon domain." However, I didn't even know what that was until today, and I had never opened to my Addon Domains control panel, ever, and I still can't create the account, and there is not now, nor was there ever, a listing of this domain under the Addon Domains control panel.

We've now spent 24 hours going around in a circle on this, and I still don't have this client's website in place.

[slapshotw]

My point was, I think you're blaming HG for the wrong things in trying to diagnose this problem. You're right; it most likely has nothing to do with those things. I'm saying, bringing them up is only adding confusion.

[ghettopixel]

Originally Posted by TT1

Well, lucky you! I currently cannot add an account nor unpark a domain and who knows what else.

I reported this problem yesterday, and so far all I've gotten is two emails telling me the problem is fixed. The problem is NOT fixed, and HostGator has become completely unresponsive.

I have emailed several times, but apparently there is no Tech Support on Sundays.

Phone support, as you probably know, is useless. All they do is tell you to email their third-party support agency.

I've been a customer for under two months. I'm NOT impressed. Three weeks ago a Trojan horse was planted on my site, thanks to HostGator not installing the patch in a timely manner.

Now this crap, which makes me look real good to my client.

"Sorry, I can't get your website started today because, um, my hosting reseller doesn't do tech support on Sundays, or maybe they are too swamped with other problems, or maybe they don't know how to solve the problem at all. I can't tell because they don't respond to emails."

So, I am spending the day shopping for a reseller with an actual tech support department and not a "virtual" one.

Couple of questions.

1.) Where do you get Third Party? I do believe their System Administrators take care of major support issues. Submitted through the support system, or so I have seen so far.

2.) Wouldnt all internet relationships be considered virtual? Or if its virtual as you say, why can you call and talk to the same people you talk to over the internet? Actually one night when I had a problem, I talked to a guy I do believe it was Jess, and he asked me to call, and I called and guess it, it was him I got switced too, blah, virtual third party my butt.

3.) Have you ever considered not being an Jerk to them? If you were a jerk to me I would stop dealing with you too. If at all, customers have no right to be a jerk to their hosting provider. Hell I think alot of companies should put a "We dont take crap" policy! And I dont think they should have to answer redundant questions that are problably user malfunction. Granted we all make mistakes and we all do some things wrong and cant figure them out and they will help you, but sometimes, being redundant and emailing over and over and over and over again, just makes you an jerk and look like somone who is really good at spaming and screwing it up for the rest of us.

---

Now dont get me wrong, and please do excuse my language, but companies should not have to put up with people being cocky to them just because they think they have a right too. Its alright to be scared and nervous and sound cocky the first time because you dont know what is going on but hell, calm down after the first time and maybe your issue might get resolved, if it hasnt already, this is probably a user generated error, because considering there are more resellers on that server and non of them have posted a problem, it might lead you to believe this bloke has made a mistake?


On another note I am constantly contacting customer support for my stupid things, and you know what, I have NEVER had an answer go UN-Answered for more then 5 minutes. And considering they use a ticket system that integrates with their email system (most likely because of the manufactor of their ticket system,) it automatically generates a ticket, and they get notified. Grow up man, learn to be polite and learn how to work WHM because its not that complicated. Perhaps you forgot to ummm....add packages, features?

[GatorJess]

Jess from HostGator Level 1 Support Staff here.

We actually do not do 3rd party support, we take pride in having real people here 24 hours a day working to assist you, and we do work on Sundays. (I'm working tomorrow, actually!)

To those of you who haven't gotten the level of support expected, I apologize. We do our best here to work with as much information as the customer gives us, and ask that customers keep in mind that we all work hard to resolve as many issues as we can as quickly as we can, but that we still need to provide quality service (sometimes we can't rush because rushing would mean an incorrect response and an issue that persists or comes back over and over again).

We provide responses to all tickets we receive in a timely manner, even if simply to acquire more information about the problem. If you submit a ticket and don't get a response, it is possible that we didn't get your request. If you don't receive a reply with a ticket number to the email you send the request from, we didn't get your ticket so we will have nothing to work on nor will we be aware that you are experiencing any kind of issues. You'll need to resubmit the email.

If you continuously have trouble emailing your support tickets, you can also go to http://support.hostgator.com and submit tickets from there (it isn't required that you log in to submit the ticket, but you can log in to have a history of tickets kept for you. You would log in using your primary email address and original account password.)

Thank you for your understanding. Have a great day!

Jess
HostGator
Level 1 Support

[gwyneth]

Two comments, one on HG support and one that's general. "You" doesn't refer to anybody in particular, it's just less pretentous than "one".

Although incremental improvements are always possible for anybody, I don't see how HG could offer better support without, as Rolls-Royce used to do, fly a man out to the desert and clean the spark plugs.

Having somebody answer the phone on Sunday night (really Monday morning) and provide intelligent answers is a very high level of service. HG does. Having somebody who knows what they're doing respond to "Live Chat" is also a very high level of service.

For those of us who use shared servers, think about how much support HG provides for as little as we pay. Compare it, for instance, to a monthly cable tv bill (which is likely to cost three or four times as much)--would you be able to reach the cable firm at 2:30 a.m. on Labor Day to ask why your remote skips channels?

Some of the HG plans cost less per month than satellite radio charges, for crippsakes. How much support would you expect from that?

For those with reseller plans, are you offering anywhere near the ratio of potential support: monthly charge that you get from HG? That is, if a customer is paying you $25 bucks a month are you offering potential support around the clock each and every day? Or if s/he's giving you $12.50, are you providing half as much potential support? If you are, I'm really impressed.

Ah but the HG services are mission critical to your income flow, you might be protesting. If that's true, then it's awfully incautious (at best) to peg so much on such a little expenditure.

You are probably paying HG less than you pay for telephone service. If your income stream is based on providing internet services or selling something over the internet and you are not running a dedicated server or some kind of HG-independent failsafe, preferably both, you are acting just like somebody who puts a desk outside a phone booth and complains that the phone company won't let you put an answering machine on a pay phone.

It's ridiculous to rage about losing hundreds or thousands of dollars because you were down for service that cost you less than a dollar (I pulled that figure out of the air based on being down a day and having the least expensive reseller plan). Can you imagine a car repair place whining they lost hundreds of bucks worth of business because a screwdriver bent?

Now a general observation about dealing with customer service anywhere. The single most effective way to achieve good service is to admit a mistake and ask if they can help. I have gotten non-extendable grace periods extended; non-reinstatable insurance reinstated; and civil service and utility policies that were supposedly as rigid as steel to become flexible with the magic words, "hi, I did something incredibly stupid and I was wondering if there was any way...."

It is so rare for people to take responsibility and blame themselves--and so refreshing for any kind of service outfit to hear when they are used to a zillion excuses--that it can literally knock attitudes out of their sockets. If you amaze them, they often amaze you.

Of course HG isn't perfect. But it costs me less per month than getting my lawn mowed. A single time. I think almost anybody would think I was insane to expect the lawn guy to answer the phone in the middle of the night and explain why the grass is not coming up in a little spot near the back fence.

[Serra]

Originally Posted by gwyneth

Ah but the HG services are mission critical to your income flow, you might be protesting. If that's true, then it's awfully incautious (at best) to peg so much on such a little expenditure.

It's ridiculous to rage about losing hundreds or thousands of dollars because you were down for service that cost you less than a dollar (I pulled that figure out of the air based on being down a day and having the least expensive reseller plan).

Either you are reading my posts, or you are reading my mind.. I so much agree with you on this.

Now this crap, which makes me look real good to my client.

Yep, one of the pitfalls of using shared hosting is that it doesn't work very well and that there are always problems. Resellers who use shared hosting are less than professional or simply brand new. I can't say that all resellers who use shared hosting aren't any good, but anyone who is using shared hosting for reselling isn't providing top level service.

[gwyneth]

reading my posts or reading my mind

Certainly the former, Serra, but the latter would mean both having the use of your awesome powers and at least one additional one.

(I've got to confess that when I saw you'd replied, I was a little apprehensive until I read what you wrote.)

No, what triggered my rant was the combination of some very deep discussions we've been having in our co-op about tools; seeing the reseller price the other day; and reading one too many temper tantrums about HG service.

When I saw the reseller price, and what HG customers get for it, I thought for about one minute, hey, we could...and then, involuntarily, a mental calculator kicked in about supporting hypotherical customers and how much it would (or should) involve. A deep, involuntary shudder and groan actually woke my dog.

I'd already been vaguely skeptical about whether some claims in the forum about lost revenue were exaggerated (seemed kind of dumb not to have at least one contingency plan if that kind of money was involved), but suddenly I wondered about most of the "how do I explain things to my customers" complainers, whether reselling host service or providing other computer and site service.

It seemed really noxious to simultaneously whine about the quality of HG customer service/support while decrying what this did to their own customer service/support. Some sound as if they're outraged because now they've got to provide customer service/support at all.

This lead to wondering about what they thought their own customers were paying for, and why they apparently feel entitled to either outrageous markups or to acquire the tools of their businesses at virtually no cost. That kind of tools to revenue ratio wouldn't be realistic for a beachcomber, let alone any other business I can imagine including fortune-tellers, street musicians, and the folks who dirty up your windshield at some city intersections.

[Serra]

Originally Posted by gwyneth

Certainly the former, Serra, but the latter would mean both having the use of your awesome powers and at least one additional one.

(I've got to confess that when I saw you'd replied, I was a little apprehensive until I read what you wrote.)

Feel secure in the fact that I will not call you an idiot, unless you are one. ...and it appears that you are not one.


For everyone else,

There is only one type of shared reseller that I feel sorry for. Its those resellers who need to start small and can't afford $179.00 a month to get a dedicated machine. I was there myself, but even with hosting being a side line for me, I was able to grow out of that very quickly. Most hosts open a reseller account and start reselling as part of their business with one or two clients, just enough to pay for the hosting account. Then something happens and those few customers lose confidence in the host and move.

A better way to do it is to stay out of the hosting business and simply provide hosting setups for customers, but take on none of the actual responsibility. This can be done through HG's affiliate program. They give you cash for signups. Yes, you get less of a percentage of the money, but none of the hassle.

In one year’s time, after selling a number of accounts, open a reseller account and move (for free) the people who are hosted with HG over to your reseller/dedicated account. Your whole first year of clients will then become your client base for the second year. The second year’s clients will become your additional income as they will go directly into your reseller account.

The benefit of this is the first year of operation; you bear none of the responsibility for problems with the hosting. You aren’t hosting their accounts, HG is. Then if HG does a good job, you tell your clients you are taking over support of their accounts and that you are keeping them at HG. If HG is perceived to have done a crappy job, you tell them you are dumping those stupid *******s and starting your own hosting company…. neglecting to tell them that you are still using HG as a reseller.

Either way, you’ve deflected any blame for poor hosting in the first year, even when it is actually your fault!

Why is this all important? Because the goal of everyone, who is reselling, should be to get off of shared hosting, shared hosting is the worst level of hosting. It’s very cheap, so people like it and some of us had to start there, but the goal should be to get your own server. You don’t have to know ANYTHING to have a managed server. Its more expensive, but you can have everything done for you. It’s the best of all worlds.

So, please don’t come here and ***** when you are out thousands of dollars and hundreds of customers because your crappy $35.00 a month account broke. We understand it sucks, but if you are out thousands of dollars and hundreds of customers, then its your own fault.

[vtrain]

Originally Posted by Serra

[snip]
In one year’s time, after selling a number of accounts, open a reseller account and move (for free) the people who are hosted with HG over to your reseller/dedicated account. Your whole first year of clients will then become your client base for the second year. The second year’s clients will become your additional income as they will go directly into your reseller account.
[snip]

The idea is good you only thing forget that you are english speaking and it's commun to forget that the whole world is not english speaking. There are much more people and business waiting outsite of english speaking world. In this world signing my clients to a HG account would be good.

With HG and other US companies making competition maybe one day we can have this prices and this type of support from companies in the non-english speaking world. If I had time I'm sure I could be one of them... unfortunally I do not ...

Vtrain

[slapshotw]

Originally Posted by vtrain

The idea is good you only thing forget that you are english speaking and it's commun to forget that the whole world is not english speaking. There are much more people and business waiting outsite of english speaking world.

I'm not sure how this has anything to do with what he said. Can you elaborate?

[Serra]

Originally Posted by vtrain

The idea is good you only thing forget that you are english speaking and it's commun to forget that the whole world is not english speaking. There are much more people and business waiting outsite of english speaking world. In this world signing my clients to a HG account would be good.

That business is outside my area, being an English only speaker. It would not be overly costly to run a spanish support center, if that were needed and thats not a bad idea...

[kmaw]

Might be interesting to note that both chaloupe and I speak french(even though it's his first language, second for mine), but we both run our operations in english...

French to Canada is what spanish is to the US pretty well...

Originally Posted by gwyneth

For those of us who use shared servers, think about how much support HG provides for as little as we pay. Compare it, for instance, to a monthly cable tv bill (which is likely to cost three or four times as much)--would you be able to reach the cable firm at 2:30 a.m. on Labor Day to ask why your remote skips channels?

......

Of course HG isn't perfect. But it costs me less per month than getting my lawn mowed. A single time. I think almost anybody would think I was insane to expect the lawn guy to answer the phone in the middle of the night and explain why the grass is not coming up in a little spot near the back fence.

Gwyneth, what a great response!

[gwyneth]

Thank you.

I was trying to think of parallels--things that cost between seven and 25 bucks a month--and the very fact that it wasn't easy kind of made the point. Even single-time services were hard to think of, making the point even more.

And then, trying to think of recurrent business expenses made some of the complaints look absolutely, totally ridiculous.

The only monthly business expense that I could think of that costs as little as HG's smallest plan would be something like a specialized ring tone or other phone service add-on bilking (sorry, billing) feature.

Even the monthly charge for being allowed to use the post office's printable postage costs more than HG's shared hosting.

[SledDog]

Originally Posted by Serra

A better way to do it is to stay out of the hosting business and simply provide hosting setups for customers, but take on none of the actual responsibility. This can be done through HG's affiliate program. They give you cash for signups. Yes, you get less of a percentage of the money, but none of the hassle.

In one year’s time, after selling a number of accounts, open a reseller account and move (for free) the people who are hosted with HG over to your reseller/dedicated account. Your whole first year of clients will then become your client base for the second year. The second year’s clients will become your additional income as they will go directly into your reseller account.

Your telling me after HG pays you the affiliate commission they will allow you to move those people over to a reseller account?

[Serra]

Yes, but after 1 year. I did that with about 10 accounts at LunarPages and 15 accounts at ICDSoft.com.

[SledDog]

Originally Posted by Serra

Yes, but after 1 year. I did that with about 10 accounts at LunarPages and 15 accounts at ICDSoft.com.

Thanks for the reply Serra.

What did your customers say when they saw that their accounts were moved from HG to a new hosting company, or I should say your new reseller/hosting comapny.

[amartins]

Originally Posted by vtrain

With HG and other US companies making competition maybe one day we can have this prices and this type of support from companies in the non-english speaking world. If I had time I'm sure I could be one of them... unfortunally I do not ...
Vtrain

Completely agree with you.

Outside the US hosting is very far below the "bang for the buck" you get from US companies and support is well... below par to say the least. Not that its a support issue but let me give u an example of the attitude. I dont know how many of you remember Network Solutions and how domains used to cost 35 USD / year with a minimum 2 year susbscription. We are now in 2006, the domain market has been opened up for a long time...

An example: Telepac owned by Portugal Telecom and owner of Sapo.PT (400ish on Alexa) charges €84,80 (currently that is in the region of 110 USD) for a minimum 2 years COM, NET, ORG domains.

Tech support on this and other services is NOT toll free. They can do this, in my opinion, because of the language barrier. I'm sure more or less the same could be said for most other European Union countries... except maybe the UK, Netherlands and Germany.

Anyway back to topic; I like what u said Serra, I wish I had thought to start out like that, I would probably have dedicated more time to developing the webhosting side of my business..

Even with the language barrier for eventual support issues (one could create an extra billable service to do tech support things) lets be honest... apart from the times when the sh** really hits the fan most issues get resolved quickly. One of the hundereds of other clients on the same shared/reseller server you are on will probably get the issue to HG's attention before you even notice it happened.

As for lost revenue thats a different kettle of fish. I can understand (and agree) about people needing a more professional platform if their income is mostly from hosting.

In my case (and I would assume quite a few other people) apart from a couple of dozen hosting customers (at dirt cheap prices which just about cover the cost) the majority of my hosting related income is from ad revenue on sites I have on HG. Even though I am happy to get the 300 to 350 a month from that it by no means justify investing in a dedicated platform (I wish it did) where I could have all my resold accounts as well as my own sites.

Im happy to see that a few of the players in the US have operations started in London, a few others have plans to start them soon. Maybe that is the kick in the ass that European providers need to get us a better service, with as many features, support and reverence for the customer as we are used to at US hosts, for the same sort of money.

Rgds.
António

[gwyneth]

I dont know how many of you remember Network Solutions and how domains used to cost 35 USD / year with a minimum 2 year susbscription.

Ahem..uh, some of us remember Internic and when it cost $200 for a domain's first year and a hundred bucks each year thereafter.

(But then, some of us remember something called The Source before it transformed itself into Compuserve...not to mention carrying stacks of punch cards into air conditioned rooms...back when everybody used to send out their tvs for repair all the time and drugstores had vacuum tube tester machines. They would have put you in an asylum then if you'd suggested that the same drugstore would be selling little b and w tvs for less than ten bucks several decades later. )

[Serra]

Originally Posted by SledDog

Thanks for the reply Serra.

What did your customers say when they saw that their accounts were moved from HG to a new hosting company, or I should say your new reseller/hosting comapny.

I told them in advance that they would be moving, the cost would be the same and that I would take over customer service. No body even really understood what I was doing and signed off on it without question.