Fantastico outdated

[racefanatic]

Hey can someone tell the people that do the upkeep on fanstico to get rid of the old outdated and not supported anymore to remove them like the Viper guestbook and find something that is still supported,,,,

[kmaw]

Tell them yourself

http://netenberg.com/contact.php

[gwyneth]

Besides the facts that 1) Fantastico is a free 'extra' tossed in with the server space you are paying for and 2) it is much better to learn how to install applications yourself (for security reasons, wider choice, more effective site operation on your part), the tone of your demand is not likely to induce HG to cancel vacations, authorize overtime, and divert all manpower to achieve immediate results.

Maybe if there were a smiley that stamped its foot...

[slapshotw]

Oh boy, and I was so convinced until just now that fantastico was perfect for me

Seriously though, fantastico is bad for so many reasons. Just install the apps manually.

[Serra]

Originally Posted by racefanatic

Hey can someone tell the people that do the upkeep on fanstico to get rid of the old outdated and not supported anymore to remove them like the Viper guestbook and find something that is still supported,,,,

Good idea. I'm glad you pointed that out because I was thinking the same thing, but I couldn't really put it into words.

[kmaw]

Originally Posted by Serra

Good idea. I'm glad you pointed that out because I was thinking the same thing, but I couldn't really put it into words.

and when you did, I know you'd be one to sit here and whine to us about it, but not tell the ones who actually matter...

[patwa]

I think that it's good of HG to include Fantastico, if only that it gives people a way to try out some of the more common apps out there without having to install them yourself. That's about all it's good for in my opinion, and would also explain why it's not always up to date.

It's not hard to install the apps yourself, and any good developer will provide clear instructions on how to do this. I can confirm the easy installations, having done a few at the beginning of my HG lifecycle without any prior experience whatsoever. Also, installing yourself gives you the confidence in the installation, allows you to control things such as database name, settings, preferences locations, etc, and makes things generally tidier. Plus you can't really complain if something goes wrong as it's your own install rather than someone else's.

Also, remember that Fantastico is just a 'taster' of what's out there, there are many more apps so look around before commiting yourself to something. Install them, try them out, then delete them and settle on theone that bets fits your needs.

H.

[kmaw]

I love www.opensourcecms.com for that reason

[eJM]

Fantastico is an excellent way to be introduced and test a variety of products that take only minutes to install with basic configurations. Downloading and installing and configuring even only a few products, like CMS', would take a very long time in comparison. If it's found that the product is unacceptable, the uninstall is just as fast. If it's a good product, but out dated, updating the product and configuring it is simple enough.

It's a great addition to many hosts and it's used by even those of us who are no strangers to installing programs and scripts on our servers.

Jim

[slapshotw]

But that's why opensourcecms.com (as kmaw mentioned) is perfect. You can test whatever you want.

[eJM]

I just spent several minutes there looking at a few things. Not everything is functional. That's not what you get by installing it with Fantastico. Not only that, but you get to experience first hand any issues related to your own server, not opensourcecms'. It's fast, it's easy and you can leave it for a few minutes, a few hours or a few days - and dump it all for something else whenever you want.

True, it's not a comprehensive list, but the products are a fine bunch. You can upgrade or you can decide to search out something not on the list, but having Fantastico is nothing but a plus. It's feelings are not hurt if you do not use it and it takes nothing away from your server's resources.

Jim

[slapshotw]

Yes but too many people use it not to test things out, but to make their real installs.

[eJM]

What's wrong with that exactly? I would hazard to guess that the average webmaster is a neophyte that is unfamiliar with many of the features and functions of the host environment. The Fantastico image of the installation is a basic, working installation with standard configuration. It can be modified by the user. I'm sure you are familiar with the many product support forums that have more "can't install the software" cries for help than almost anything else. No doubt the developers of Fantastico have capitalized on that and made their product very popular on servers across the ether.

Jim

[Impavidus]

What I dislike about Fantastico, is that it changes the user permissions for all of my databases ( read only to all) ever time I installed a script to test out. Plus, more and more scripts are coming with easy to use installers.

[granpaw]

I don't have a problem installing stuff myself, but I do have a problem creating databases. That is all that keeps me using fantastico...and I have found no clear tutes on that either.

[smp]

Originally Posted by granpaw

I don't have a problem installing stuff myself, but I do have a problem creating databases. That is all that keeps me using fantastico...and I have found no clear tutes on that either.

Then next time you go to install a script come here and ask for help...

Regrads, Steve Xx

[gtgeorge]

Originally Posted by granpaw

I don't have a problem installing stuff myself, but I do have a problem creating databases. That is all that keeps me using fantastico...and I have found no clear tutes on that either.

This one isn't clear enough? f
http://www.hostgator.com/tutorials/x...skin_mysql.htm

[kmaw]

Shouldn't be too hard... CP11 seems to have lots of tutorials built in... only real difficulty with this is remembering to add db privileges for the user.

[WEG0508]

Fantastico is a very useful tool, but like any other tool it has both advantages and disadvantages.

This post is not an endorsement of or recommendation against Fantastico.

I feel it would be very useful to have posts where those who are not experienced enough or have no desire to manually install applications offered via Fantastico can go after performing the Fantastico install and get advice on what to do next if they decide to stick with the autoinstall.

I tend to manually install everything because I have always preferred the hands-on experience. It helps you to gain more knowledge about the applications you are dealing with.

To address the out-of-date package issue: While this is a concern, there are several packages which once installed by Fantastico offer an automated upgrade capability.

The SMF Community Forum is an excellent example. As of this post, the version installed by Fantastico is SMF 1.1.2. The current version is 1.1.3.
The elapsed time from when I began the Fantastico install until I completed the initial sign-in to SMF and upgrade to the latest version was less than 3 minutes!

I am sure that many of the other packages installable by Fantastico offer similar automated upgrade functionality. If you know of others please take the time to share.

To address the security issues:

This is like the case where just about every other application was speeding too but Fantastico got pulled over and ticketed...

PHP is a great application development tool... so good in fact that it has opened the door to many thousands of inexperienced people to introduce packages which are now used by tens of thousands of websites world-wide. We all benefit from this but there is a price to be paid. There is a reason airlines did not replace "experienced, human pilots" when autopilot advanced to the point where it could fly the plane from take-off to landing.

For those of you who are hands-on... take a look at the code and database design of some of the most popular Forum and CMS systems (both open-source and commercial). In many cases words like "horrendous", "idiotic" and "juvenile" are most appropriate, but due to the brute force combination of cpu speed, gigabytes of ram, faster disks and the fact that most hackers haven't had time to get around to your site yet, these flaws are most often hidden.

Even if a package is manually installed, there is always the possible issues of poor software design, design omissions and poor decision-making on the part of the person performing the installation. I point out these issues to illustrate how many of the security issues with Fantastico are still security issues in a manual install like user Robert being allowed to use password RoBert or password trebor.

A little while ago I went to several vBulletin Forum sites, some with over 50,000 registered users and successfully registered as user: sena001 password: sena001 . Tried it at SMF Forums and got rejected because the password contained the user name, so I changed the password to 100anes and it was accepted... Any way you look at it, this is a Security Flaw. This is not to criticize these two widely used applications because I would first have to check out there admin interface to see if there is a way to completely prevent imbedding of userid's/passwords be they backward, forward or jumbled.

[Dwight]

I'll add my 2 cents to the heap...

I've used Fantastico a few times, and yes, it's quick and easy.. however, I found that the installation is almost always a security update or two behind, and in at least one case, a minor bug was introduced because if the Fantastico install.. the fix was posted on the apps website, but it involved messing with the database..

But my main problem with using Fantastico is, you don't progress.. you don't learn... so you begin to see other apps you'd love to try... if ONLY Fantastico supported them... You start leaning on that crutch for too long, and you'll never try walking without it...

Most scripts that are any good have installers that walk you thru the set up... yes, you'll need to set up your own database, but it's about 3 steps.. set up a database, set up a user, add the user to the database.. then write down the database name, user name, and password.. After you do a couple, you can do it in your sleep...

Web hosting isn't rocket science, as much as I'd like my clients to think it is, but there is a learning curve... if you continue to wait for Fantasico to load all your scripts, you'll never see the top of the curve...

I will add that my company has custom designed and hosts over 100 web sites, most of those here on HG. If I was limited to the applications provided by Fantastico, I would have lost a big chunk of those clients. Perhaps if you just have your own site to worry about, that's not a problem, but if you are building a client base, it is.

[gwyneth]

Originally Posted by Dwight

Web hosting isn't rocket science, as much as I'd like my clients to think it is, but there is a learning curve... if you continue to wait for Fantasico to load all your scripts, you'll never see the top of the curve...

Very well put, and, IMO, the earlier part about limiting your choices is inarguable.

However, in the course of becoming the nth thread in the forum discussing the advantages and disadvantages of Fantastico, the real problem of racefanatic's original post has been obscured: his imperious, "waiter! garcon! waiter!" tone.

[Dwight]

Originally Posted by gwyneth

However, in the course of becoming the nth thread in the forum discussing the advantages and disadvantages of Fantastico, the real problem of racefanatic's original post has been obscured: his imperious, "waiter! garcon! waiter!" tone.

Good point. I think we are all agreed his tone was borish. But even when a child asks a question in a rude manner, after the rudness is dealt with, he still should get an answer.

[WEG0508]

I agree with the both of you. The tone of the post was IMO a bit obnoxious but on the other hand when you are communicating via email/posts it is sometimes easy to word something in a way that it can be taken the wrong way. I try to look at the positive side and will "assume" that the gentleman was attempting to be humorous.

Also, as I stated in my previous post I always do the installs manually because I want to gain more knowledge about the application I am installing and/or prefer to customize in a certain way. However for me to state that everybody should do it the way I prefer to do it would be an affront to everyone else whether they prefer my way or not.

There are inexperienced users setting up sites and using certain applications for the first time. Fantastico can be a great help. My suggestion was that those of us who can help these users secure and tidy up the output of Fantastico be willing to assist via knowledge sharing.

We should also acknowledge that there are security issues with most of these packages whether they are installed with Fantastico or not and that many security issues arise from poor judgement on the part of the person installing the application.

Instead of downing Fantastico and implying that people who use it refuse to learn and endanger the health and well being of the rest of us... maybe we address the issue to HostGator for making it available in the first place! How dare they give users the option of using this dastardly installation tool and then label it "HOT" on their list of features and ex-toll it capbilities to install 50+ different packages... Hostgator you would do this just to reel in some new customers... oh for shame, shame, shame (just kidding ).