Easier way to edit my website?

[John Wolf]

My current procedure involves opening my editor, making a change, and then using my FTP app to do the upload. Unfortunately neither Sea Monkey nor Komposer have a built in FTP/like app for instant saving to the HTML server. I could use Text Wrangler which has a feature to save directly to the HTML server without bothering with the FTP app, but its a text based HTML editor, and I do not know HTML all that well, and why I prefer a Sea Monkey or Komposer like app. I have complained to both companies and neither seems interested in creating such a feature, as there are plenty of FTP apps for the Mac.

I could launch the disk on my Mac desktop and edit from there, but that would mean that the versions would have to be synced all the time between the server and my desktop, and I have had issues with managing my website via the finder over a FTP app on the Mac.

In the old days when I was using Tiger I would launch Claris Home Page, make the changes, and then upload directly to the server from within Home Page. I cannot do that anymore, as Snow Leopard wont let me run Classic.

Ideas anyone? Thanks..

My apps

Sea Monkey
Komposer
Text Wrangler
CyberDuck
Fetch


John

[GvilleRick]

Kompozer does have a Publish option so that you do not have to use a separate FTP program to upload. You just enter your FTP information into Kompozer and it will upload the file. A Google search on 'Kompozer FTP' returns several good links including tutorials on how to publish using Kompozer.

[John Wolf]

Originally Posted by GvilleRick

Kompozer does have a Publish option so that you do not have to use a separate FTP program to upload. You just enter your FTP information into Kompozer and it will upload the file. A Google search on 'Kompozer FTP' returns several good links including tutorials on how to publish using Kompozer.

Its not very good and does not let me select folders on the fly. I have many docs on my website, and I need to edit them, and then save them to the server. With kompozer I need to know what folder they are in on the server and the select directory button does not work.


John

[gwyneth]

Originally Posted by John Wolf

Its not very good and does not let me select folders on the fly. I have many docs on my website, and I need to edit them, and then save them to the server. With kompozer I need to know what folder they are in on the server and the select directory button does not work.

That's just not true. You haven't grasped how it's supposed to work.

When you are connected to the internet, if you have entered the correct domain, cPanel user name and password into the Publishing Settings screen (also reached by the 'edit sites' button on the Site Manager pane), then the contents of the pane at the left in the main window (see screen shot, attached) will fill with the file structure of your account. The Site Manager pane may be browsed up and down like any similar directory/file list, files can be opened by double-clicking, etc., moved between directories, etc..

The yellow icon lets you refresh, which you'd do if you had been offline since last using it and the other icons do normal directory things like, from left, making a new directory; renaming a file or directory; and deleting a file or directory.

When you press the edit sites button on that pane, the Publishing Settings screen opens so you can edit the site info Kompozer uses to fill that screen.

The publishing settings info box is to set up each site (corresponding to an individual ftp account) with the server account you're going to use to log in. The choose directory button there naturally wouldn't show anything unless you were online and the right info is there for Kompozer to log in; it's mostly useful if you're creating more than one site because it provides a starting place for each site (which would show different directories if you had more than one site set up.)

So if you have the right info there, the right info will show (when online) in the site

[John Wolf]

I am using the Mac version, so perhaps the feature you speak of is not available. But this is what happens.(see attached screenshots). Kompozer for the Mac wont let me select a directory as I have to MANUALLY type in the path. Perhaps the windows version works differently. This is NOT what I want. Even the outdated ClarisHome Page did not make me know the path and type it in. Text Wrangler does EXACTLY what I want (see screenshot) but its text based. TW lets me select and navigate the server with ease and without knowing any path.


John

Originally Posted by gwyneth

That's just not true. You haven't grasped how it's supposed to work.

When you are connected to the internet, if you have entered the correct domain, cPanel user name and password into the Publishing Settings screen (also reached by the 'edit sites' button on the Site Manager pane), then the contents of the pane at the left in the main window (see screen shot, attached) will fill with the file structure of your account. The Site Manager pane may be browsed up and down like any similar directory/file list, files can be opened by double-clicking, etc., moved between directories, etc..

The yellow icon lets you refresh, which you'd do if you had been offline since last using it and the other icons do normal directory things like, from left, making a new directory; renaming a file or directory; and deleting a file or directory.

When you press the edit sites button on that pane, the Publishing Settings screen opens so you can edit the site info Kompozer uses to fill that screen.

The publishing settings info box is to set up each site (corresponding to an individual ftp account) with the server account you're going to use to log in. The choose directory button there naturally wouldn't show anything unless you were online and the right info is there for Kompozer to log in; it's mostly useful if you're creating more than one site because it provides a starting place for each site (which would show different directories if you had more than one site set up.)

So if you have the right info there, the right info will show (when online) in the site

[GvilleRick]

I would be real surprised if something as basic as the Site Manager in Kompozer is not included in the Mac version. I just added the information for an older HTML site I help maintain and it loads fine in Kompozer and the folders are all listed in the Site Manager just fine. The settings you attached used an http:// address for the Publishing address and not an FTP address. I would suggest using ftp://cerm.info/www/ for the address and see if that works for you.

It does seem, however, that we have had this conversation (or one much like it) in the past. If you want easy editting then I still would suggest biting the bullet and converting the site to a CMS. I have been working this summer moving our church site over to use Drupal so that the staff can add and edit information directly rather than send the info to me to add. Yes, it is a lot of work to convert but once done it will be much easier to edit. I also found that using Drupal I could actually just copy and paste from the old pages and I would only have to tweak the formatting a little.

If you haven't looked at the tutorials here then I would suggest spending a little time there to learn more on using Kompozer.

[striddy]

Originally Posted by GvilleRick

I would be real surprised if something as basic as the Site Manager in Kompozer is not included in the Mac version.

Rick, I just installed it on my mac. Site manager is there.

[gwyneth]

Originally Posted by GvilleRick

The settings you attached used an http:// address for the Publishing address and not an FTP address. I would suggest using ftp://cerm.info/www/ for the address and see if that works for you.

It does seem, however, that we have had this conversation (or one much like it) in the past.

Originally Posted by striddy

Rick, I just installed it on my mac. Site manager is there.

John, apparently you found it easier to blame the application for not having a feature than learn how to use it. Did it occur to you to check the site settings, or ask about them? No.

When a button "doesn't work" in an application that's been used for several years by many people, it's usually not a question of everybody else dancing the wrong direction.

Please, please, if you're going to keep asking us for help can you lend a little effort yourself?

[gwyneth]

I hope you don't interpret all this as "we were right, ahah!"

That's not the point, which is to try to get you to notice that something about the way you interface with, and use, software is not working.

This is at least the third time it's happened here. After encountering something that doesn't do what others tell you it will (attaching images to forum posts, something about being unable to post to Wordpress, more...) you grab a reason, any reason, and decide it's far more plausible than because you might not understand something.

Sure, applications on server and user's computer can be faulty. Sure, many are so confusing or illogical that they seem to be acting weird, and it's way too easy for developers to blame the user. People learn in a lot of different ways, documentation can be bad or nonexistent, and sometimes it takes a variety of approaches or explanations before something clicks.

But usually, when encountering software that "doesn't work" the first thing to verify is that you're doing what the software expects--and so far, in help thread after help thread, I haven't seen you do that at all.

It's especially frustrating because in this case, you either didn't notice that the example the program helpfully provided onscreen (ftp://...) didn't match what you typed immediately below it (http://) or didn't care. Your first thought was that the button didn't work in the Mac version. Your second thought, after being told in my first post that the settings correspond to the server's ftp account and if right will log you in, was that the button just doesn't work in the Mac version.

If you preach that honesty is a desirable goal, I'd suggest you start being honest with yourself.

Try to start the process with "is there the remotest, one-in-a-zillion chance that I, John Wolf, could do anything different to get this software to do what it's supposed to? Is it faintly possible that I might not be understanding something?"

I'd also bet any amount of money this closely tracks some homily about looking for answers and repeatedly finding they didn't work.

[John Wolf]

Originally Posted by GvilleRick

I would be real surprised if something as basic as the Site Manager in Kompozer is not included in the Mac version. I just added the information for an older HTML site I help maintain and it loads fine in Kompozer and the folders are all listed in the Site Manager just fine. The settings you attached used an http:// address for the Publishing address and not an FTP address. I would suggest using ftp://cerm.info/www/ for the address and see if that works for you.

It does seem, however, that we have had this conversation (or one much like it) in the past. If you want easy editting then I still would suggest biting the bullet and converting the site to a CMS. I have been working this summer moving our church site over to use Drupal so that the staff can add and edit information directly rather than send the info to me to add. Yes, it is a lot of work to convert but once done it will be much easier to edit. I also found that using Drupal I could actually just copy and paste from the old pages and I would only have to tweak the formatting a little.

If you haven't looked at the tutorials here then I would suggest spending a little time there to learn more on using Kompozer.

I still am UNABLE to get the folders to load up as they do in Text Wrangler. Do you have any tips?

I like your advice, but UNFORTUNATELY I do not have that kind of time for that type of job. My available time is spent in other areas and creating new content. But if you know of a web designer that would love to assist, but not kill me with his price tag in the process I would love to create a more attractive design to the site.


John

[John Wolf]

Originally Posted by striddy

Rick, I just installed it on my mac. Site manager is there.

Please post screenshots as I am UNABLE to get it to load folders on the server. yes I can post to a directory if I type in the path, but thats NOT THE POINT of the site manager. if I had to know and type in the path of every folder I publish too, I'll just stay using CyberDuck.

[John Wolf]

Originally Posted by gwyneth

John, apparently you found it easier to blame the application for not having a feature than learn how to use it. Did it occur to you to check the site settings, or ask about them? No.

When a button "doesn't work" in an application that's been used for several years by many people, it's usually not a question of everybody else dancing the wrong direction.

Please, please, if you're going to keep asking us for help can you lend a little effort yourself?

Please post screenshots.

[John Wolf]

You make lots of assumptions man. I dont appreciate it. I want to see a screenshot as I am once again UNABLE to get the folders to load under kompozer for the Mac.

There does not seem to be a way to publish on the fly to a folder without knowing the path to the folder on the server.

Originally Posted by gwyneth

I hope you don't interpret all this as "we were right, ahah!"

That's not the point, which is to try to get you to notice that something about the way you interface with, and use, software is not working.

This is at least the third time it's happened here. After encountering something that doesn't do what others tell you it will (attaching images to forum posts, something about being unable to post to Wordpress, more...) you grab a reason, any reason, and decide it's far more plausible than because you might not understand something.

Sure, applications on server and user's computer can be faulty. Sure, many are so confusing or illogical that they seem to be acting weird, and it's way too easy for developers to blame the user. People learn in a lot of different ways, documentation can be bad or nonexistent, and sometimes it takes a variety of approaches or explanations before something clicks.

But usually, when encountering software that "doesn't work" the first thing to verify is that you're doing what the software expects--and so far, in help thread after help thread, I haven't seen you do that at all.

It's especially frustrating because in this case, you either didn't notice that the example the program helpfully provided onscreen (ftp://...) didn't match what you typed immediately below it (http://) or didn't care. Your first thought was that the button didn't work in the Mac version. Your second thought, after being told in my first post that the settings correspond to the server's ftp account and if right will log you in, was that the button just doesn't work in the Mac version.

If you preach that honesty is a desirable goal, I'd suggest you start being honest with yourself.

Try to start the process with "is there the remotest, one-in-a-zillion chance that I, John Wolf, could do anything different to get this software to do what it's supposed to? Is it faintly possible that I might not be understanding something?"

I'd also bet any amount of money this closely tracks some homily about looking for answers and repeatedly finding they didn't work.

[John Wolf]

http://www.thesitewizard.com/gettingstarted/nvu1.shtml

Before you enter that address though, you will need to know which directory (or folder) you need to put your web pages. Some web hosts require you to put your web pages in a directory named "www". Others require you to put it in a "public_html" directory. Still others say that you are to put your web pages into the default directory that you see when you connect by FTP. And so on. Find out the directory where you're supposed to upload your web pages to.

I am actually looking for a way to publish to directories that I do not know the path, and a way to publish or navigate to those directories from the application. Unless I am mistaken THIS CANNOT BE DONE in Kompozer for the Mac. Some of you claim this can be done, well I'd love to see a screenshot as that will solve my problems.

[John Wolf]

There does appear to be a site manger for the mac version. I just need to figure out how to edit files and publish.

http://www.charlescooke.me.uk/web/ugs08.htm

Yes I id spend time in the app, but I did not catch that feature.


Thanks for your help but accusing me of being dishonest is not right.


John

[John Wolf]

Check out the screenshots.

[virtvir5]

Originally Posted by John Wolf

I am actually looking for a way to publish to directories that I do not know the path, ...

Huh?! Are you actually saying that you expect some publishing application (any application) to know (by intuition?) where you want it to put stuff when you don't know yourself? Good luck! Presumably it should also provide the links intuitively.

So long as your web site's publication structure is based on folder paths, it's going to require knowledgeable management on that basis. As has been pointed out, a content mangement system with DBMS handing of publication activities based on categories and sub-categories might be an alternative to that kind of organization, but apparently that's not a viable option for you either.

[John Wolf]

Originally Posted by virtvir5

Huh?! Are you actually saying that you expect some publishing application (any application) to know (by intuition?) where you want it to put stuff when you don't know yourself? Good luck!

So long as your web site's publication structure is based on folder paths, it's going to require knowledgeable management on that basis. As has been pointed out, a content mangement system with DBMS handing of publication activities based on categories and sub-categories might be an alternative to that kind of organization, but apparently that's not a viable option for you either.

I can use Cyberduck or any other FTP app to navigate to the folders I want. I want this capability built into Kompozer but it appears to get it I will need to purchase another application.

As has been pointed out, a content mangement system with DBMS handing of publication activities based on categories and sub-categories might be an alternative to that kind of organization, but apparently that's not a viable option for you either

You are speaking Greek to me. Please explain.


It looks like I will need to continue to use my FTP app to do the uploading of my files.


John

[John Wolf]

Text Wrangler does EXACTLY what I want. The only issues is that its a text/HTML editor and not a easy to use editor like Kompozer or Sea Monkey.

Maybe someday I will have the money for DreamWeaver.


Thanks for your help


John

[virtvir5]

Ah! I think maybe I got it. If you just want a site editor with some kind of tree structure the lets you browse to your intended destination rather than needing to specify that destination manually, that's certainly possible. My own favourite is UltraEdit with built-in FTP browsing and uploading, but it's not free. It too is basically a text editor, but it does handle both HTML and PHP tags very well, along with quite a few other programming and markup languages. It is also capable of displaying your work in a temporary browser window at any point during the development process.

As for my "Greek", just ignore it. A DBMS-based CMS option isn't what you want anyhow.

[John Wolf]

Originally Posted by virtvir5

Ah! I think maybe I got it. If you just want a site editor with some kind of tree structure the lets you browse to your intended destination rather than needing to specify that destination manually, that's certainly possible. My own favourite is UltraEdit with built-in FTP browsing and uploading, but it's not free. It too is basically a text editor, but it does handle both HTML and PHP tags very well, along with quite a few other programming and markup languages. It is also capable of displaying your work in a temporary browser window at any point during the development process.

As for my "Greek", just ignore it. A DBMS-based CMS option isn't what you want anyhow.

Thats a Windows program and I am on a Mac. Besides that I am already using Text Wrangler anyways.

Tell me do you know of a way to get Kompozer to do what I want or will this require DreamWeaver?


John

[striddy]

Originally Posted by John Wolf

Tell me do you know of a way to get Kompozer to do what I want or will this require DreamWeaver?

This is from the Kompozer for mac help file.

Publish Page - Publish

The Publish Page - Publish tab lets you specify where you want to
publish a document. These settings apply to the current document.

If you are not already viewing the Publish Page - Publish tab,
follow these steps:

1. Open the File menu and choose Publish As. The Publish Page dialog box appears.
2. Click the Publish tab.

Site Name: Lists all the publishing sites you've created, so you can choose the site that you want to publish to. To create a new site, click New Site.

Page Title: Specifies the document's page title as it appears in the browser window's title bar when you view the page in the browser. The document's page title also appears in your list of bookmarks if you bookmark the page.

Filename: Specifies the document's filename. Make sure you include the .html or .htm extension in the filename.

Warning: If a file on the remote site you're publishing to has the same filename as one you're uploading, the newly uploaded file will replace the existing one. You will not be asked to confirm the action.

Site subdirectory for this page: If you leave this blank, KompoZer publishes the page to the main (root) publishing directory at this site. If you want to publish the page to a remote subdirectory that resides underneath the main publishing directory at this site, enter the name of the subdirectory or choose it from the list. KompoZer keeps track of the locations you type here, so you can select from a list of remote locations you've previously used. Keep in mind that subdirectory names are case-sensitive.

Note: The site subdirectory you choose must already exist at the remote server.

Include images and other files: If checked, KompoZer publishes any images and other files referenced by this page. You can choose to publish these files to the same location as the page, or else you can choose to publish these files into a remote subdirectory that exists underneath the main publishing directory.

Tip: To create remote subdirectories or delete published pages or images, you must use an FTP (File Transfer Protocol) program.

John, as I've said to you countless times before, the sooner you try a CMS (content management system) the sooner you can forget these types of difficulties and be able to concentrate your valuable time on creating or updating content.

Sigh....

[virtvir5]

Tell me do you know of a way to get Kompozer to do what I want or will this require DreamWeaver? John

'Fraid I can't help you with that particular application. I've never used it. In fact I generally avoid anything and everything that purports to create either HTML markup or CSS style sheets by some kind of WYSIWYG "interpretive" process.

I'm just an old stuck-in-the-mud believer in rolling my own with a plain text editor, I guess. I will confess that once, many moons ago, I did try Mickeysoft's Front Page when it was included in the MS Office suite. I suppose that might have something to do with my current attitude toward proggys of that general ilk.

[gwyneth]

Originally Posted by John Wolf

a way to publish to directories that I do not know the path, and a way to publish or navigate to those directories from the application. Unless I am mistaken THIS CANNOT BE DONE in Kompozer for the Mac. Some of you claim this can be done, well I'd love to see a screenshot as that will solve my problems.

Originally Posted by John Wolf

I can use Cyberduck or any other FTP app to navigate to the folders I want. I want this capability built into Kompozer but it appears to get it I will need to purchase another application.

I think we can clear up the confusion in less than a minute. Maybe two.

The "Site Publishing Settings" is just a stupid, misleading name for what should be called "FTP account info". Each separate 'site for the purposes of Site Publishing Settings' is just like having different shortcuts in an ftp program, or different ftp accounts.

Sounds like you need one and one only--you want to see the directory structure of your entire HG account, correct?

Well, IMO the 'aha!' info you need is that the "Select directory" button there is just for using when you create a 'site for the purposes of Site Publishing Settings', not each time you want to ftp. You'd use it only if you wanted to make a separate 'site for the purposes of Site Publishing settings', to start somewhere lower in your structure than public_html. In other words, 'settings' stores the combo that generates what you'll see via the Site Manager we've now confirmed is there.

So, if you do mean you want to see the whole directory structure of your account, press the 'new site' button in Site Publishing Settings, call it something like "lastchancetest' or 'sitemain' --you're the only one who'll see this, so don't call it your site name, for easy reference--and enter the info required:

Originally Posted by gwyneth

To publish to your site in Kompozer: in the Edit menu, choose Publishing Site Settings.

The three important boxes and what to put in them:

Publishing Server: ignore the grossly unhelpful suggestion about what to enter for Publishing Server. Instead, enter ftp.yourdomain.com.

User Name: enter your cPanel login name.

Password: enter your cPanel password.

Also, for future reference: when you press F5, it refreshes your page, if you've uploaded a new one. Ctrl F5 both refreshes the page and clears the cache.

(also see Composer publishing « HostGator.com Support Portal or

[gwyneth]

I quoted myself from an old thread because it strips it down to the dry-out pak in a beef jerky bag, and realize that my comment about the ridiculously unhelpful text on screen is really at odds with a single comment I made above about that same text. So I'll apologize for that, John.

But it is dishonest, to yourself. Self-denial is clearly a form of dishonesty (cf. someone who 'believes' an enormous candy bar has 100 calories).

If a guy about to divorce his eighth or nineth wife (well, fourth or fifth) came to you for counseling and insisted the entire fault was with the wives, because they all...

Or a neighbor who'd just been fired, again, because it was another company that ...

Or a graduate student who, once again, has encountered an advisor who...

Wouldn't you say, "are you sure you aren't contributing in some way to the problem?" and gently point out that there is a commonality, and he or she is right in your office.

This isn't to say that you're always at fault or software's never at fault. Sometimes it's the user, sometimes the program. But it's impossible to even diagnose any unpleasant software experience without at least ruling out anything on the user's end.

While I think there's huge potential for confusion, or at least ambiguity, in the varying terms tossed around by ftp apps and (especially) publishing programs w. ftp, that also means there's a possibility for you to be confused. No fault on either side necessary--"do I have the settings right?" is infinitely more productive than assuming a mac version has malfunctioning or useless buttons.

And why not say, "I don't see it" instead of "the mac version must not have it"? The former admits the latter possibility, however remote; the latter doesn't get you anywhere.