Debating whether to sign up...need help

[Up & At 'Em]

Hi.

I don't have a website yet. It's currently being designed and programmed, and it will be done in a couple of weeks. I'm no techie in any sense of the word.

I have a new business, and I jumped into this whole website thing with both feet. My designer told me where to get hosting and I followed his advice, no questions asked. Now, I'm second guessing my decision.

I have an account at enom.com. It's the spotlight account. My designer recommended this one, but I met with him after signing up and after talking with him about the features I need my site to have he said I may need to upgrade my hosting package.

I figure it's probably easier to put my site with another host now, rather than later. It appears that hostgator has many of the same features as enom, but hostgator seems more user friendly and offers a little more bang for the buck, as in space and bandwidth.

My site will have three dynamic pages on it. The rest will be static. Customers will be downloading e-booklets from my site. My business is new, but I will be building it and adding new customers and traffic to my site on a continual basis (don't all site owners?).

So, those are some specifics. Here is what I need to know:

1) What can I get at hostgator that I can't get at enom and why is that important?

2) I don't know how long it will take to grow my business to a point where I would need to upgrade. My plan was to start with the baby plan for $9.95 a month or whatever it is. Should I go up to the next plan or will this be enough for now? I have no clue how many downloads a month I will be getting. Not too many at first, but this business could grow fast. Can someone shed some light on this issue for me...as in how many downloads a month, site visits, etc I would get for each package?

3) Enom seems to offer a few things that this site doesn't. I don't know if those things are important for me or not because I'm not a designer or a programmer. Most of these things appear to be coding languages...or at least I think they are. Can someone give me a heads up on what these items are and who might use them with what kind of website?

That's about it. I made a list trying to compare hostgator to enom, and hostgator has more to offer in the areas I know and understand, but enom seems to have alot going for it in the areas that a programmer might know about which is probably why my designer had me sign up there. But, for me, I feel like I'm in a big, empty room. I can't make heads or tails of anything over there. There's no forum. I emailed them a couple days ago with a question and have gotten no response. It's a bit frustrating. Also, they only offer 1GB of space and 10GB of transfer data with my plan. Next upgrade would cost the same as hostgator's baby plan but would only give me 2GB of space and 20GB of transfer data. I'm not sure if this is adequate.

Also, I registered my domain name with/through enom. I don't know if I can get a refund. They have no policy stated on their site. I think I'm paying month to month. If I were to switch, would it be very difficult to do? Wouldn't it be easier to do it now before my site is up?

Someone please advise me!

Thanks!

Kim

[Serra]

1. Its not about space or bandwidth.
2. Its not about price. Never base hosting on a cheaper price. Pick one that has a reasonable price. If you just want cheap, go with goDaddy, they are cheap.

Those two, space & bandwith and price are very low on the list of importance when finding a shared hosting solution. Its about support. Who offers the best support, followed closely but a whole bunch of stuff that I could tell you, but you simply don't have the background to understand. I'm not trying to be harsh, just honest with you. So that leaves you with one thing, support. Talk to support at enom, talk to support at HostGator. If you choose the wrong one, you can move later, its not that important. You aren't risking much money either way.

Pick the one you feel best about.

[Up & At 'Em]

Ok. I understand that it's not about price. At least, not entirely. I do have a limit to what I'm willing to spend on this venture at the moment, simply because I'm spending out of pocket.

But, not about bandwidth or space? Surely that must be at least part of the consideration. I don't even have my site up yet and I've already been told I might need to upgrade. That's why I'm giving it so much consideration.

My programmer said my host needs to have php. Both hosts have that.

It would be easier to stay where I am, but I just have a feeling in my gut that enom isn't the right host for my site based on the reaction I got from my designer and from what I've seen in comparing enom to other hosts.

I don't want to make a rash decision for the wrong reasons, which is why I asked for help here.

I appreciate your input, and I will consider your comments as I make my decision.

Thanks.

[slapshotw]

I just looked at eNom's site, and everything they're offering is offered here at HG with the exception of ASP.net. When you say they offer all these languages, what exactly are you referring to?

Also, you can keep your domain with eNom but switch your hosting here. It's a fairly simple process (change one thing in your eNom settings).

[Up & At 'Em]

slapshotw: What I meant by languages were these: HTML, Dynamic, Flash, Java Applets, XML/XSL, ASP, PHP, PHP infinifile, Front Page Extensions, MSXML, CGI, Zend, and ioncube. I realize not all these things are languages or scripts. I know some are applications. At least, I think they are. You know more than I do I'm sure.

Basically, I just want to know that my site will have lots of room to grow, and that I'll have good support (which I'm already getting here from this forum and I don't even have an account yet) and that the things I need to run the features for my site will be here for me.

As for my domain, I don't mind keeping it at enom for now, but when it's time to renew it I'd like to have it transfered here if I have an account here. Enom charged me $70.00 for my domain for two years. I thought that's what everyone had to pay.

My designer didn't inform me about anything. He just said, "Go to enom and get the spotlight package." That was it. I feel really stupid for not checking out some other options, but it seemed overwhelming. I've looked at other hosts in the past, when I was just debating on having a website, and there were so many and knowing nothing about what services I would need I just gave up. So when my designer said 'go here' I didn't question it. But, I am now!

Enom still hasn't gotten back to me about my account question and they don't have a forum. I find forums very helpful.

If I transfered my domain over to here would I have to pay something for that?

Kim

[slapshotw]

As long as your site isn't asp.net you'll be fine and very happy here. HG supports 99% of those things you've listed. You'll also have plenty of room to grow.

[gwyneth]

First, to clarify: registering your domain name and hosting your domain are two different things. They can be done at the same company or at different ones. You've already registered your domain's name, and now you're deciding where it should be hosted.

Although I personally think HG's support is as good or better than the other host firms I've used in the last 13 years, the single biggest advantage of being here is this peer support forum.

The problem with being new at something, at least one user here has observed, is not knowing which questions to ask. The forum users not only answer questions, they'll tell you who, what, and when to ask them.

They can point out what's a problem with HG and what's a problem with what you're doing. This is a critical distinction. You've probably noticed that HG does not censor criticism of itself here, which is probably the single most telling feature about it as a company.

Without input from disinterested observers (i.e., your host firm, your designer are interested parties) it's harder to learn to trust your instincts and make intelligent decisions. The forum people can, and do, provide this kind of input.

It's so cold up here my brain and fingers are frozen so I'm not being as clear as I'd like...

The forum and the answers it can give both specifically and generally are kind of like being at grad school. Somebody almost always has useful info, there's lively (some would say too lively) exchanges of views and techniques, and no matter how much or how little somebody knows, there's info for everybody.

I read and searched the forum for at least four months after signing up for HG, before registering to chime in, so there's that much there. Searching has always taught me something even on the few occasions it hasn't answered a question.

[Serra]

Originally Posted by Up & At 'Em

But, not about bandwidth or space? Surely that must be at least part of the consideration. I don't even have my site up yet and I've already been told I might need to upgrade.

Bandwidth and space simply are not part of the equation. No website can use 100,000mb of space and 100gb of bandwidth and pay $9.99 a month. It is simply impossible. Other restrictions will prevent that, such as limits on processor use and max connections. So, why consider it? If you are truly going to use that much, then break out the checkbook because your going to be paying around $350.00 per month, not $9.99.

Bandwidth and space that those levels simply can never be used. Someone used the example of a car with a 1000 gallon gas tank, hooked to a 1 mile long chain. Yes, the car could go 10,000 miles, but it will never get more than a mile away from its home base.

Originally Posted by Up & At 'Em

It would be easier to stay where I am, but I just have a feeling in my gut that enom isn't the right host for my site based on the reaction I got from my designer and from what I've seen in comparing enom to other hosts.

Two facts you should consider. First, enom isn't BAD. Here we have a bit of a lower impression of them because we deal with them on non-hosting issues and they piss us off. Many of us are enom customers, not because we love enom, but because they are one of the few choices available. Second, if you stay with enom, you can always move later, it isn't that big of a deal. I've moved about 400 individual websites from one server to another last year. Its not a big deal. Second, if your developer thinks you should move, MOVE! Don't spend any more time on "thinking about it." You picked the developer, the developer is an EXPERT. When the developer says move, just do it. It isn't that big of a deal and the developer likely knows more or something you don't.

I have 4 customers who are using hosting that I dislike for one reason or another. Every single one of them has problems because of it, if they would move, my life, would be greatly easier and their bill would be smaller!

[Up & At 'Em]

Gywneth: Thanks for your reply. Just one thing....when I signed up at enom they wouldn't let me have a domain name unless I also signed up for hosting. Is that bad?

Serra: If no website will ever use 100gb of space or 1,000 gb of bandwidth because of restrictions with processor use and connections, then why does HG offer it? And why do they offer it for $9.99 a month if it should cost so much more? Wouldn't it be better to offer less to the customer that is more in line with reality?

As for my designer, he told me to sign up at enom. I did. Then, he asked me about my website requirements. After finding out what I wanted my website to do, he said I might need to upgrade my account. I'm sure he meant at enom. I now know that he and I both made a mistake. In my case, I was naive. But, he should have thought to ask me about site features and requirements before telling me to sign up for hosting.

My programmer is someone different. He hasn't told me to host anywhere. The only thing he has said is that my hosting plan needs to have PHP. That's offered at both places.

I really like the forum here. That is one huge consideration for me. I know that once my site is up and running I will be on my own with it. The designer's and programmer's jobs will be finished. I will be left to maintain the site on my own. Like I said, I'm not a techie. The programmer said he'll make site changes very easy for me to perform in an admin area of the site, but once it's finished it will be up to me to maintain it. I'm sure the programmer and designer wouldn't mind answering a question or two once the site is done, but I wouldn't feel right asking them for ongoing support. So, the forum here would be very helpful.

I'm really leaning toward HG for my hosting. I don't think enom should've made me sign up for hosting in order to get a domain.

I have other questions, but I guess now I just need to ask one. How do I switch my account from enom to HG? And can I get the domain hosted here too or am I stuck at enom until the domain expires?

I really appreciate the help I've received from each of you!

Kim

[slapshotw]

Originally Posted by Up & At 'Em

How do I switch my account from enom to HG? And can I get the domain hosted here too or am I stuck at enom until the domain expires?

Keep your domain at eNom but cancel your hosting account there. Then sign up for HG. After you sign up you'll get an email, and in the email they will list two nameservers to use. Go into your eNom domain control panel, find the nameservers section, and just fill them in with the information HG gave you in that email.

[Serra]

Originally Posted by Up & At 'Em

Serra: If no website will ever use 100gb of space or 1,000 gb of bandwidth because of restrictions with processor use and connections, then why does HG offer it? And why do they offer it for $9.99 a month if it should cost so much more? Wouldn't it be better to offer less to the customer that is more in line with reality?

The reality is that everyone is offering 100g of space and 1000gb of bandwidth for $9.99, so Hostgator must offer the same or they will lose business. Most customers will never come close to using that much space or bandwidth, those that try will be disappointed. Don't get me wrong, its not impossible, just very difficult without exceeding other limitation.

[Up & At 'Em]

Slapshotw: I have no idea how to cancel my hosting account at enom. I can't find anything to click on to even tell me how. I tried reading the fine print earlier, and it said something about canceling the service through some services page or something. I later went back to the fine print to read it again, but I must have gotten a different page because the fine print has changed and I can't find where it said that. This is just very frustrating for me! There is information there on how to transfer an account or domain TO enom, but nothing at all about canceling an account. The fine print did say that calling them won't cancel it nor will emailing them. So, I don't know what to do.

Serra: I went to network solutions to see how much space and bw they offer. I know Amazon, Nordstrom, and several other companies use them, including some businesses similar to my own. The largest hosting package they offer has 30gb of space and 500gb of bw. For their e-commerce they offer less but it's more expensive. The larger one is only 200mb of space and 8gb of bw. Since I know that these large companies are hosted here, this gives me some frame of reference. Yes, HG will more than meet my needs and I don't think I will have to worry about my site causing any kind of problems on a shared server! Now I just have to figure out how to cancel my account at enom.

Kim

[slapshotw]

Originally Posted by Up & At 'Em

I know Amazon, Nordstrom, and several other companies use them

...

Since I know that these large companies are hosted here, this gives me some frame of reference.

You need to make sure you have a better understanding of the difference between domain registrar and host. Amazon and most large companies host their own website on hundreds/thousands of servers they own and manage themselves. Amazon uses many times more than 30gb of space for their webspace and exponentially more bandwidth than 500gb/month. Amazon.com is registered with network solutions but Amazon does what earlier in the thread I suggested you do-- they point their nameservers to where they're actually hosting the domain.

[Up & At 'Em]

Slapshotw: Ok. So, I have zero frame of reference now. I have no clue how many pages or what functions or how many visitors can be hosted with the amount of space and bandwidth provided here. Serra said it's more than any website will ever need, but that still doesn't give me any idea of how much space and bandwidth is required for my website. I need examples...some frame of reference.

I'm still trying to figure out how to cancel my account at enom. I emailed them, but it's doubtful I will get a response. I found the fine print I read earlier. It says I need to do it through the services interface. I click on the only thing I can find that says services, but there is nothing there that would indicate canceling an account. It just tells what services their company provides. There is nothing in their FAQ either.

If I sign up at HG will I at least be able to find my way around?

Kim

[slapshotw]

Up & At 'Em - If you needed more than the Baby plan i'd be very, very, very surprised. Go for it-- you can always upgrade, it will take literally a minute.

I hope that helps.

-Matt

[Up & At 'Em]

Yes, Matt, that helps a little. Thanks. -Kim

[gwyneth]

Kim,

I've been trying to think of an analogy to explain the difference between registering a domain name and hosting for at least a day. This is the best I came up with, and it's not perfect, so bear with me.

Registering a domain name is like christening a baby. It pretty much gets done once. (Then you have to renew it a year or two later, like re-upping a magazine subscription--I told you it's an imperfect analogy.)

Hosting services for that domain are like Sunday school. You can send that baby, once christened, to most Sunday schools no matter where it was christened. There may be a few side issues, but the principle here is that most Sunday schools will take a baby who's been christened anywhere.

BUT, you need to tell the christening place (I told you it's not a great analogy) where to send the paperwork--i.e., the Sunday school that's in a different church or city or whatever.

That's exactly what you're doing when you give the domain registration place the DNS numbers for your host location.

[Up & At 'Em]

Gyneth: Thanks for that analogy, but I want to unchristen the baby! I'm going to call eNom.com and ask them for the EPP. Not that I know quite what to do with it once I've got it, but someone will know where I want it transfered to.

Right now, my information in unprotected on whois. eNom charges for that protection, but there are other companies who don't. I'm thinking I'll put the domain name with one of those companies where I can get protection without having to pay extra. I don't need all the spam coming at me and all the other problems that could arise from making that information public.

Also, I read that eNom hijacks domains when they are transfered or expire. I'd like to find a company that doesn't do this.

By the way, thanks to all the help I have recieved here, I'm signing up with hostgator today. My programmer said it appears to be a powerful host and has everything we need to run my site. I've researched several unbiased sites for reviews and most of them are favorable. My own experience here just over the past couple of days has been good. I love having this forum and the live chat for support. So, I'm making it official today and signing up for hosting here! My site will be here in a couple of weeks!

[gwyneth]

Originally Posted by Up & At 'Em

Gyneth: Thanks for that analogy, but I want to unchristen the baby! I'm going to call eNom.com and ask them for the EPP. Not that I know quite what to do with it once I've got it, but someone will know where I want it transfered to.

I do not know nearly as much about this as Serra and Matt but I'm not sure you can...that name has been purchased for a period of time, one or two years.

What I think you can do, however, is renew--very early--with another registrar.

(The christening analogy may be unexpectedly valid here--once that name goes on the baby, it technically can't leave, at least in the temporal sense. Apparently this used to cause a fair number of problems in England (state religion) where even if a godparent mis-spoke the name or got it somewhat wrong, that was THAT. The baby was legally Wrongname forever. Even if everybody called it Rightname.)

[Serra]

Originally Posted by Up & At 'Em

Also, I read that eNom hijacks domains when they are transfered or expire. I'd like to find a company that doesn't do this.

Ok, you are starting to get it now... eNom... bad... HostGator good.

[tomowa]

Kim, I sent you a PM, that I'm not sure you have read yet.....

[Up & At 'Em]

Gwyneth: Oh yes I can! True, I registered it for a year, but I can transfer that registration. That's the only good thing I can say about eNom right now is that I do own the domain. They sent me the EPP today via email, and just as soon as I've had that domain for 60 days (which will be in the next week) I'm going to transfer it out of eNom and take it, and my business, elsewhere.

As for renewing with another registrar, if I were to try that, eNom would make it difficult. From what I understand, when a domain expires, they hijack the name. Then, they attempt to sell it back to you for $200.00. That's what I've read anyway.

You can bet that wherever I end up registering the domain next time I will have checked the company out before signing up!

Serra: Why didn't you just tell me that in the first place? I already knew eNom was bad. I just didn't know they were evil too. Now I do.

[slapshotw]

Originally Posted by Up & At 'Em

I'm going to transfer it out of eNom and take it, and my business, elsewhere.

<snip>

As for renewing with another registrar, if I were to try that, eNom would make it difficult.

These two are the same exact thing. Transferring it to another registrar is a de facto renewal, because you need to buy an additional year at the new registrar to transfer it. That year will get added onto the current time you've purchased it for.

If you're planning on transferring it to Hostgator, just be aware that they're just a reseller for eNom and you're actually still in the same place... (you may see Hostgator's domain service listed as being called Registry Rocket. This is eNom's name for their reseller site).

-Matt

[gwyneth]

Thanks, Matt...I thought Kim was talking about de-registering the domain (obvliating that domain name completely), when I said I didn't think it was possible.

Kim, are you now clear about the difference between transferring-renewing the domain registration, and the hosting services that domain will use?

[Up & At 'Em]

Matt: It's ok if I have to purchase an additional year with this domain. I never intended to give it up....only to get it out of enom. It seems that transfering it to a new registrar and buying additional time will do this for me. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how I understand it. Once I give a new registrar the EPP and domain name and pay them their fee, the domain will no longer reside at enom.

I am aware that HG is an enom reseller for domains, and I don't plan to transfer the domain here. Is HG also a reseller via enom for hosting? Actually, if they are that isn't so bad. My main complaints with enom are that I hate their website, lack of support, and the fact that they hijack domains. So, if my domain isn't registered with them, that takes care of the domain issue. As for the hosting, I didn't have a website hosted with them yet so I can't say anything regarding a hosting experience there. So, even if HG is an enom reseller of hosting, I guess I can accept that because HG is a separate business with a website that is friendly and plenty of support. If I had a problem, I would take it up with HG. If something is going on with enom, that is up to HG to take it up with them and I wouldn't have to deal with them. See? Am I making any sense?

Gwyneth: I was talking about completely obliviating my domain because there was a delete option on the control panel at enom. I thought this was the only way to solve the problem. As it turns out, you are right. I can't delete the domain. But, I can assign it, transfer it, or whatever you want to call it, with a new registrar. That's what I'm doing now.

I understand that the domain is separate from the hosting. I know that the domain can be hosted in one place, and the website in another. A domain can be renewed, which doesn't transfer it. It can be transfered, as in hosted at one place, but pointing to another so when a customer wants to go to a website they can click the domain name and go not to the site where the domain is, but to the site where the website is hosted, meaning they end up at the website. If you want to move your domain from it's hosting place, which is not where your website is, you can do that to by having it assigned to a new registrar. Also, I understand it isn't in my best interest to have my website and domain name hosted by the same company.

How'd I do? Did I pass?

Kim