Community - Where to Start!

[clone1018]

Hello. Today I am going to share with you guys easy cool ways to make awesome websites. To start off I am going to go over some of the ways to make a butt kicking Community Site.

Community Site

To start off I want to open your eyes. But I also want to close them. Close them to WordPress and open them to the work of Drupal and Joomla!. Also phpBB3 for those low (free) budgets and vBulletin to those with a hearty wallet.

Drupal
Drupal is the best CMS (Content Management System) to ever hit the streets. And I would recommend it over Joomla! any day. Adding content to Drupal is as easy as clicking your mouse. Basically all you do is click Create Content and click either Page or Story (depending on static or dynamic). The themes for Drupal are stunning (check out some Drupal made sites here http://mogdesign.eu/blog/70-beautiful-drupal-sites/ ). And I am sure with a bit of time you too can have an awesome website.

Joomla!
I wouldn't recommend Joomla! to a normal person but if you know what you are doing you can make a really awesome site. It is a bit more advanced but in no way does it have more features.

phpBB 3
If you are on a low budget but want some really good forum software. Then I completely recommend phpBB. The themes are stunning and it is widely used.

vBulletin
If you really want to make a go at a awesome community then check out this piece of heaven. vBulletin is by far the best forum software to come out of the internet, but at a hefty price. The skins in vB (vBulletin) are really awesome and if you want to check out a few visit this site http://vbskins.com/ . (This Forum uses vBulletin)

Bridging
Here comes the BEST part. All of these (CMS to Forum software) are bridgeable (Bridging means sharing the same user database and/or sharing the same theme.) That means...

• Drupal and phpBB
• Drupal and vB
• Joomla! and phpBB
• Joomla! and vB

(Click the above links to see the module's page)
So when it is all setup and ready to be published you will have a very awesome completely bridged community.

Help
If you need any help installing ANY of these PM me here or email me: famagist@gmail.com
Or you can message my MSN: lukester1018@hotmail.com

Sorry I don't have any examples but when I do I will post them!

Hope you guys like it,
clone1018 of Rodcats Studios

[striddy]

Originally Posted by clone1018

Close them to WordPress

Any what is your reasoning here?

[clone1018]

Almost every new website that is made uses wordpress. Even if its a company website. To me it turns down the value of the site. Mostly it was my opinion like most of the stuff in there.

[striddy]

Originally Posted by clone1018

Almost every new website that is made uses wordpress.

You are of course entitled to your opinion but that statement is not a fact.

[citawds]

The last few websites I put up are Joomla sites I've also wrote a few sites in a text editor and while I've used Wordpress it is not very often. This isn't to say that there is anything wrong with Wordpress.

The value of a website is in it's content, usability and ability to attract users to the site, as long as it accomplishes these goals does it really matter what framework is used?

Steve

[gwyneth]

Originally Posted by citawds

The last few websites I put up are Joomla sites I've also wrote a few sites in a text editor and while I've used Wordpress it is not very often. This isn't to say that there is anything wrong with Wordpress.

The value of a website is in its content, usability and ability to attract users to the site, as long as it accomplishes these goals does it really matter what framework is used?

Very well put, Steve. And for a community, drawing and coalescing the membership, then keeping a wide enough variety of participants involved and peaceful, is really far more important than the specific apps that comprise its site.

[clone1018]

Well then. I see that this topic just turned out like my other topics. So I guess Close it. Delete it. If all I ever post on this forum is going to be shot down then goodbye.

[GvilleRick]

Originally Posted by clone1018

Well then. I see that this topic just turned out like my other topics. So I guess Close it. Delete it. If all I ever post on this forum is going to be shot down then goodbye.

I'm not sure what you expected. If you post a strong opinion such as the original one on this post you are likely to get responses from folks with strong opinions and some may differ from yours. It's no different than posts I've seen in the past where someone would have the opinion that a "real" website is made in Notepad from scratch and only wimps would use a script or WYSIWYG HTML editor. Bottom line is that there are a variety of tools available. I've created sites using WordPress, Joomla, and hand coded. Depends on the purpose of the site, the content, and the person maintaining it as to which is better.

I do think you provided some good resource links and have looked at some of them to get more ideas on future sites.

[gwyneth]

Originally Posted by clone1018

Well then. I see that this topic just turned out like my other topics. So I guess Close it. Delete it. If all I ever post on this forum is going to be shot down then goodbye.

Actually, you might consider what I said--as well as Steve's comment--as a compliment rather than an insult. Whatever else may be said about your site, you appear to have a very enthusiastic, lively, loyal community.

That is MUCH, MUCH harder to accomplish than assembling a few apps--which could, after all, be installed by a hired gun in an hour or two. (And although folks have tried to charge for 'the people element', with forum boosters and other types of ringer members, the results aren't the same.)

Compare your community with the one in this thread, and (if it weren't so old) think about what you could teach its OP, who apparently has no problems assembling various webapps:

how can i get traffic

[striddy]

Originally Posted by citawds

The value of a website is in it's content, usability and ability to attract users to the site, as long as it accomplishes these goals does it really matter what framework is used

Nicely put.

Originally Posted by clone1018

If all I ever post on this forum is going to be shot down then goodbye.

It wasn't "shot down." No need to spit the dummy.

Originally Posted by GvilleRick

I do think you provided some good resource links....

I agree

[justMe]

and just to add a little humor/irony to this thread, did ya'll notice that the 70-beautiful-drupal-sites site... is built with wordpress?

[striddy]

Originally Posted by justMe

and just to add a little humor/irony to this thread, did ya'll notice that the 70-beautiful-drupal-sites site... is built with wordpress?

Ironic indeed.

[Keith W]

Originally Posted by justMe

and just to add a little humor/irony to this thread, did ya'll notice that the 70-beautiful-drupal-sites site... is built with wordpress?

Heh!



.

[citawds]

Originally Posted by clone1018

Well then. I see that this topic just turned out like my other topics. So I guess Close it. Delete it. If all I ever post on this forum is going to be shot down then goodbye.

Speaking only for myself it was not my intention to shot you down, I thought you were looking to discuss these issues, I know that I have learned a lot by listening to what others have to say.

I'd say that instead of saying goodbye stick around and discuss these issues we can all benefit I know I have a lot to still learn.

Thanks

Steve

[citawds]

Originally Posted by justMe

and just to add a little humor/irony to this thread, did ya'll notice that the 70-beautiful-drupal-sites site... is built with wordpress?

I like it!
While I do not use WP a lot you have to admit it is very easy to setup and maintain I have pointed friends and colleagues toward WP

Steve

[gwyneth]

Originally Posted by citawds

I like it!
While I do not use WP a lot you have to admit it is very easy to setup and maintain I have pointed friends and colleagues toward WP

So have forum members, advising site noobs--it is MUCH better for them to learn Wordpress than struggle with Site Builder/Studio. I really don't want the OP to interpret this as an argument, but s/he is not perceiving that while WP may not suit her/his needs, it is very useful for others.

[RBX0122]

I think most people have a tendency to use software that has a large development following such a wordpress. However I have never really liked wordpress.

I moved over to Joomla after using mambo because there was more development going on for Joomla. Then I found Drupal and probably will never turn back.

I use phpbb on my main site and asked my community if they would want me to switch to vbulletin. It was a big fat no. So I converted over to phpbb3.

So for myself I use software/scripts that have a large development following since I suck at writing code. This allows for fast answers to questions that crop up. The only real draw back for me to using popular software is that it can be singled out and spammed/hacked more often than less popular software/scripts.

[mdgshorty]

I have done everything from creating webpages from scratch to using the different cms. For the longest time, I always had thought that the cms' were for the lazy. I finally broke down and tried some different ones until I found the one that fits me best. Depending on what I am doing depends on if I use a CMS or a page from scratch. My first CMS was phpfusion. Then I was hooked on joomla for a while and now I am hooked on Wordpress (wordpress mu). I use the Mu version because I do run multiple websites and I am able to change from one site to the other without any problems at all. Up until recently, I have not found any site that was able to really bridge my message board (ipb) with whatever cms I was using. Now there is. If you are using IPB, they now have it where it can be converged with with ipb and wordpress or joomla. They are working on others now too.

I've tried Drupal and really I was not to thrilled with it. With wordpress, you can make it look legit if you have the right tools.

[Buck]

The article was interesting and especially so to me.

Until now, I have only been tinkering with cms and blogs. When I first began, Joomla was the recommendation I received the most from. I was given a ten minute tour and left alone. It looked so easy. lol

For a couple of months, I tinkered with it and eventually learned how to install it from scratch (without fantastico) and I learned how to get a site up. The first site took two months. The second took about a month and over the next two months I was able to setup a site in an hour or less (that is just the framework, not the content.)

During this time, Fantastico had install scripts for Drupal and WordPress, and I tried them out. However, comparing them to Joomla, they were seriously lacking in features. Later, I came to realize that these three products are in two separate categories for a very good reason... Joomla is a Content Management System, not a WebBlog. Joomla could run circles around the other two in features because it was designed to be more of a do-everything product.

Drupal and WordPress are both great weblog framework packages. Drupal has the added bonus of being able to create several separate blogs with one package, where WordPress is primarily a single blog package.

At the time I was comparing these three products, Drupal was pretty much brand new and had very few themes available. WordPress seemed to restrictive since I was used to using some of the neat features of Joomla. I continued using Joomla and built a few websites, three of which are still operating in Joomla.

Today, i build most of my websites in WordPress. There are three reasons I do this: Availability of themes, Simplicity of the product, and more coding freedom.

Drupal has come a long way and now has many themes available, but still not as many as WordPress. Joomla has many theme and while many are free, many are not. Wordpress seems to have far more free, and very good, themes available than either of the other two products. I have not looked into Drupal again more recently, but I been noticing the links for Drupal themes becoming common place.

I cannot comment in Drupal in this area as I have not looked at it since its early days. However, I find in what I am doing now, the simplicity of WordPress is more important than some of the features of Joomla. What few features I need in WordPress, I can add as plug-ins. Because of it's simplicity, I can not only build a website quickly, but I can teach others how to use it quickly.... When I need a complex website, I still fall back on Joomla. Simplicity also adds one other factor - speed. I find my larger WordPress sites load much more quickly than even my smallest Joomla sites in the browser.

I spent several weeks working on setting up two similar websites with different content. When I finished, I started to add the advertisers and a few script links inside articles. OUCH!!! Joomla is VERY security conscience and as a result it restricts certain coding within articles. I spent time searching for a work-around, but never found it. I since recreated the sites in WordPress where I did not have the restrictive coding problems.

My most recent accomplishment, and the first serious website I setup for a profit, is ParagonRV.com. It was setup in WordPress and populated with two months of articles in only five days. The day it launched, my google toolbar said it had a page rank of "No PageRank information available." In less than two weeks, it had a PageRank of 5. (I am not sure what I did right.)

I am also working on a site for a church. The site is very complicated and has areas for each department of the church and many features for member-to-member functions and support. That site is being built in Joomla. I would have to have installed more than a dozen WordPress packages in order to have built it in WordPress.

My opinion between the site building packages is that a beginner needs to pick one package and learn it well, very well. Then, after it becomes second nature to use, learn a different one. This will help create both expertise and versatility in the builder.

I do not profess to be an expert web designer or builder. Between Joomla and WordPress, there is not much I cannot do with either package within their limits, of course.

[citawds]

Originally Posted by mdgshorty

I have done everything from creating webpages from scratch to using the different cms. For the longest time, I always had thought that the cms' were for the lazy. I finally broke down and tried some different ones until I found the one that fits me best.

I also for a while thought a CMS was the easy way out for a developer, this was before I actually tried a CMS. Now my feeling is that a CMS isn't for the developer so much as the end user who is able through the front-end update; add content on a re-occurring basis with out involving the developer. Once a developer has designed a few good templates/themes for their particular CMS it makes his/her job much easier.

Steve

[twohawks]

Great thread, 'Clone'... glad you posted this.

I really do apreciate the opinons being shared about these products, and I was also expecially entrigued by the 'Bridging' feature you mentioned. (just so happens I am working on a bridging issue right now).

@Buck: Very helpful and informative post there... when searching for the "right cms"... well how many posts and reviews do you read, only to keep drudging through - ever thirsty to read details about someone's experience!!... So I appreciate you taking the time to share details of yours, and your opinions (as well as everyone's opinions being shared here).

When I first saw the title of this post I thought I just had to check it out. When I read the opener I did not expect to see an opinion slot on cms's but rather a discussion on what makes up a 'kick-ass' community environment, its architecture, because this really interests me. Hmmm...

So I just want to toss a couple opinions of my own into the mix, and then I want to share something of a community architecture with you (and see what it may stimulate in this discussion)...

First off, don't forget FluxBB at fluxbb.org.
I used this to create what I think is a pretty kick-ass school-community website. Actually, it is now two schools, and it is for a community with complex needs.

Flux is "forum architecture", not blog, but it is very diverse.
What I like about Fluxbb is its totally open-source, totally customizable, extremely small footprint.. i.e., its got everything you need, and nothing you don't, and you can add anything to it you like (it helps to know a little php). Its veery easily integratable into existing sites, and I love coding for it [its so simple and easy, yet powerful]. A huge repository of plugins exists.... It has enjoyed a really great community of developers and sharing users, and although its going through major changes during the last year, its still alive and kicking(ass).

====================================
One Take On A Community Architecture
====================================
With the deployment I mentioned above... there are two schools, one for the teachers (as students), and then one for 'other' students ...of both the main school host (headmaster), and of the teachers from school #1.
In school #2 the teachers who are budding into developing their own new programs as they branch out from their primary school/community can conduct their programs for others here.

Forums are grouped into categories, and then forums may have subforums under them if needed.
I set a category (group of forums) up so that the headmaster can create Forums as related Subject groups/zones, and then sub-forums under each can be created providing breakout areas for the various subject-lessons taylored for specific groups. Collaboration is customizable via group permissions management (of course).

So if you had, say, a "Teaching Language" category, you could have several forums, say one for the teachers of Lang1, one for Lang2, and so on, then subforums might come in handy for things like if you wanted to group teachers up for particular assignment phases, or creating inter-collaborative assignments at summit points for the various groups interactively... its endless really.

Then there are categories for private forums where the headmaster can create a zone for each member for tracking personal development, assignments and progress, say, with that individual's particular teacher, or generally in the programs they have joined. Even keeping a personal diary where desired.

Then I installed a gallery section in which you could have both
- fully shared galleries available to create for individuals and groups
- private galleries for individuals and groups
- fully integrated with the forum for tie-in to collaboraive lessons, etc. And, say you have different groups working a lesson on differnt/separate levels... you can tie their work into their groups both privately (say,only for that group), and/or have open/shared areas where all levels are sharing aspects of their work and the development through the course.
- The galleries allow for discussions under individual image posts, and images may be grouped into small collectives.

This provides incredible tools for the members to create complex collaboritve engagements with regard to their individual group lessons, as well as connecting groups up in the places where lessons and/or assignments have overlap.


Other features:
- a download section for multimedia lectures, tapes, seminars, to be downloaded... fully permissions controlled so it is groups-managed
- a calendar which handles a mode for community events, and then a mode for tracking all postings... also, of course, having total group-permissions control.

The other school is taylored similarly.
The other school started as a place for the headmaster to conduct programs that are not for the teachers so much as for either non-teacehrs or beginners. What's cool about the other school is we can also begin giving sub-administrative access for the teachers coming online from school #1 for running new programs for the new-coming students into school #2. The teachers can create similar subject/classroom situations as they enjoy at their main community/school.

The calendar is integrated and shared by all schools, but it is very well permission controlled ...so entries only ever have to be entered or tracked in one place, while access-permissions is coherently managed at all times.

Now, if a discussion or lesson is launched (or in progress) at, say, school one, and a teacher or the headmaster wants to invite/assign student(s) from the second school to come and either observe or participate, that/those user(s) can be added into the other community/school's specified forum even though the two schools are independent (BBS's with individuated group members) because we can customize the group management features for bridging across the BBS's. (This is one of the features I am currently working on.)
the way it works is at school #2 we would give the student/group permission to the forum(s) (or sub-forum(s) at school#1, so that when they log in (still at their native school #2) the forum from school #1 to which they now have permission will appear in their forums listing. So note that they do not log into the other school -->> there's no need to, and we don't want them to either ;^)

I am sure there is more to point out that I am not remembering off the the top, but this is where my mind went to when I saw this post, i.e., I am interested in hearing from others about how you are envisioning actual community structures, what challenges your desires have posed, what you may have used to resolve a function needed for a community facility.

Anyone interested in this? What do you think?

[clone1018]

=D See people that's what I like to hear. I wrote something to show people the other options out there. I was never bashing WordPress. I just wanted to put it out of the way. i.e. Close your eyes to WP. So I could concentrate on the CMS's.

Joomla is good. Drupal is the same. Now. Drupal does not come with the same features. You have to download and install them. I like that. It gives me more flexibility as a web developer.

[twohawks]

Originally Posted by boiserc

<snip>Then I found Drupal and probably will never turn back.<snip>

Can you share more about why, please?

[twohawks]

Just a brief (I promise) follow-up...
Some of the noteable challenges we face/d trying to provide 'liberating' community features...
1) adding a user to more than one group (or 'multi-group' permissions features)
2) grouping forums/discussions (or 'categories' as a super-forum feature)
3) grouping topics into sub-discussions under a broader discussion (or sub-forum features)
4) sharing a discussion/forum from one community(bbs, or?) with another community (or, hmmm, cross-forum permissions, or cross-group permissons)

Clarification on #4: the idea there is either you figure out a way to pull/push a forum/discussion into another BBS community (share it), and then in that BBS you can manage your user-groups access permissions in the normal manner,
OR you figure out a way to flat-out set permissions for a group in 'this' BBS to have access to a specified discussion/forum in another BBS.
At least, that's what I have come up with so far.

--------------------------------------
I am interested in what others who have faced these sorts of challenges might share in terms of what features they may have found available to them either in their chosen package, or with a plugin for it, and/or just how they went about solving such challenges.

Just for the record, if some of this seems short sighted, please be gentle with me... its been some while since I had time to revisit looking into other cms and or bbs offerings. 'Back-when' it was tough to find such features. Maybe it still is, or no?