Backups

[bagel50]

Hi. Before I start, please, I am not trying to rub salt into any wounds, or criticize Hostgator, but I think certain suggestions could me made, some in light of recent events, and others just because I want to suggest improvements! Apologies if these points have been made already. If other users of this forum feel that I am sticking my oar in where it isn't wanted on point 1, tell me so.

1. Because of trouble with Supra where several things unfortunately went wrong at the same time, some people will probably like to see some assurances that procedures have been changed where necessary and measures have been taken to stop a repeat of the freak combination of several problems. In particular full details could be given of the exact procedure in place to strive for data security - which RAID arrays are in use on webservers, exact procedures for weekly and monthly backups, whose servers the backups are kept on, where, etc etc. so that tech-savvy clients who use the hostgator can see what they're really getting in detail. In general the practices of offsite backup are great, notwithstanding failiures, if more details are available to resellers for example, we could use the details in *our* promotional material, as transparency and more information of backups is a good thing for everyone imho. If details of procedures HostGator has in place or planned changes in light of Supra are already available, then please point me to them.

2. Weekly and Monthly backups are good up to a point, but I would like to offer more to my clients. I'm not asking that Hostgator change the frequency of backups, I knew what I was getting when I signed up and was happy with it. There needs to be a limit in frequency for business reasons, and I am fine with Hostgator providing what they do. However, if I personally wish to offer daily backups, it is a difficult thing to do at the moment.
I - A recent question to support got an answer that I cannot schedule extra backups myself, and this is something that I would definitely like to see possible.
II - I would like to be able to restore full backups from within WHM - I'm not sure why that's not currently possible. It is an extra load upon support to require them to do it themselves, and for resellers, being able to restore a full backup (e.g. to import clients from another WHM account) is extra flexibility.
III - Offsite is good. Off server but onsite is another intermediate layer that I would pay extra for. A Scenario: I have space on another server in the Hostgator DC for which I pay extra. I have ftp access only to that box. From my reseller account on the primary server I can schedule backups at a frequency of my choice or manually action full account or CPanel "home" backups, and store them on the secondary ftp server. Then if the main webserver goes poof or is down for over 2 hours, say, I can restore from my backups onsite to another reseller account on a different Hostgator server, change DNS (externally managed) and I'm laughing. All this would require no bandwidth charges, because all transfers are done in the same DC. Weekly and monthly backups are still done, handled by HG.

What are peoples thoughts on these suggestions? Hostgator, what do you think?

Generally guys, Keep up the good work!!

Olly

[bagel50]

Another suggestion: With SSL certificates in use, secure POP, IMAP, SMTP and HTTP access is possible. The only remaining way afaik that passwords are sent in plaintext across the internet is with FTP. I know that SFTP and SCP are not allowed at present; could hostgator perhaps provide a way to block up this security hole? I know it's not serious, but it would be nice... have I missed any security problems?

Olly

so... no word at *all* on onsite backups on a different server? for me, that is the most important suggestion. HG - has this been considered at all in the past? Is no-one else interested in it at all? Is this a one man thread?

Olly

[Stef]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

so... no word at *all* on onsite backups on a different server? for me, that is the most important suggestion. HG - has this been considered at all in the past? Is no-one else interested in it at all? Is this a one man thread?

Brent posted this info in this thread:

We are getting a new weekly off server backup system for all our shared and reseller boxes. The new backup system will be more reliable/better than tape (this is going to cost a fortune, but so did the supra incident). More details to come in a few days.

When more info is available Brent will post it.

Stef.

[bagel50]

yeah, I'd read that. thanks for replying, I wasn't complaining, just suprised that no-one else has expressed interest in more backup options (in this thread). Ideally I would like to be able to schedule backups myself at a frequency chosen by me... for example every six hours for clients that profess their sites to be mission critical, or have frequent database updates, and are willing to pay costs to cover the space required. I'd keep the last three backups to protect clients from themselves as well as having what HG provide anyway (1 weekly and 1 monthly backup). The key to this is ftp space on another server in the same datacentre, so that it can be restored to another hosting server as and when I as a reseller see fit, and to avoid bandwidth charges for going out of the datacentre with the backups. It occurs to me that this would be a very marketable idea, for HG to implement for their own customers, and for resellers to use and control for their own clients.

I am not talking about a backup reseller account on another server. ftp only access to a server should be cheaper, since there are no cpanel/whm licences to pay for on the backup server, and no bandwidth to allocate, since all transfers are in the datacentre. The server could be less powerful - very few services running, and no sites to create proc/mem load. Only in the event of restore to another hosting provider's server would any bandwidth charges be necessary, and that would happen perhaps once or twice ever.

A backup reseller account is a further option, yes, but this would add considerably to costs. Also we would need to have the option to restore full backups from whm, which we don't. Since support are tied up in the event of a disaster, it would be much better to be able to do more ourselves.

Any word on why we cannot restore full backups from within WHM? Is it a security issue that has led HG to remove the functionality from our WHM?

Olly

[edited *extensively* for clarity]

[sonic]

Originally Posted by bagel50

...just suprised that no-one else has expressed interest in more backup options (in this thread).

Hi Olly, I am here and I am listening carefully (along with many others I believe). You are not alone

sonic

[BradCis]

you are most certainly not alone on this matter. i agree and was going to post a similar topic if i wouldnt have found one. it is critical for backups to be on a seperate server and to be automaticly backed up, i believe the reseller should beable to control the frequency to some extent.

[Sixth Day]

You can have as many backups at whatever schedule you like. It's called a cron job to tarball the site and either have it emailed to you (for smaller sites) or FTP in and save it to your computer. The CPanel backup system is fine when you make a booboo on a site and need to roll back to last week's version, but should not be relied upon.

[bagel50]

yup, I'm aware of scheduling with cron jobs now since posting, (so I'm not sure why support said that scheduling wasn't possible) but am still not quite sure if you can do a "full" (Cpanel definition) backup that way. That particular question remains, as well as that about why we cannot ourselves restore full backups from WHM. also the off server backup with our own ftp access. Perhaps Brent's already working on this in the planned replacement for the current backup system...

Olly

I need to provide my clients with more frequent backups, and feel more comfortable doing them myself. Is anything happening on making a full backup of all of our resold sites possible?

Seems that other than running a cron to tar a home backup and put it in their own space, there isn't much change to what's available. Note thread http://forums.hostgator.com/showthread.php?t=2248 - the new DiskSync solution, but I'm not quite sure about the frequency of those backups. Can anyone shed any light?

Olly