accounts closed after money is given

[skeetr]

Originally Posted by mirnitagl

here's a real story...probably from a "newbie who lies as hell" right?

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=701017

Look at the dates of the posts.....this person got his refund within a day.

[skeetr]

Originally Posted by mirnitagl

another lier's story:
http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?p=5156980

This person got into the verification process but was not able to talk to hostgator (phone problems) and was not willing to send hg a scanned copy of their drivers license.

[sheptech]

Originally Posted by mirnitagl

In any case and since the subject was brought up, would it be better for me in terms of speed and overall service quality to use a Spanish company instead of a US company or location has nothing to do with host speed and the site's performance?

When you host "across the pond" you do run a significantly higher risk of outages due to routing issues or failures - there are simply fewer links between here and there, therefore a greater risk of outage. Having said that I've witnessed one major outage in the last several years due to routing issues and that was NOT with HostGator (I hosted elsewhere and was not directly affected although numerous Asia-Pacific resellers were at that other host).


One other item to the forum readers in general: I originally read this thread and became angry at what seemed like aggressive language from mirnitagl until I remembered a little something from the distant past when I first started using the Internet - email (and forums in this case) are a medium devoid of emotion. The language barrier in particular can make a post seem like it's angry or emotionally charged when it's not. So before replying hastily it's always a good idea to chill and check yourself before reacting to someone's posts. Just sayin.

[slapshotw]

Originally Posted by mirnitagl

In any case and since the subject was brought up, would it be better for me in terms of speed and overall service quality to use a Spanish company instead of a US company or location has nothing to do with host speed and the site's performance?

In addition to what Sheptech said, it also somewhat depends where you visitors are coming from. Are your visitors primarily American? Even if they aren't, you have to weigh the fact that the datacenter backbone in the US tends to be excellent (especially for the price) compared to other countries.

[gwyneth]

Originally Posted by slapshotw

In addition to what Sheptech said, it also somewhat depends where you visitors are coming from. Are your visitors primarily American? Even if they aren't, you have to weigh the fact that the datacenter backbone in the US tends to be excellent (especially for the price) compared to other countries.

Perhaps cleanhost could weigh in...he's in Spain and has a couple of HG dedis.

Myrna, there are two things I think you should consider about the stories posted in those other fora.

First, there's what the members call the "and now for the rest of the story" factor. HG isn't perfect, and of course it's not always right. But it's really interesting to read some of the accounts posted in the review category here and find out what the poster omitted from his/her account. HG is highly professional, so tends to hold back on the "supplemental details" except in some of the most egregious cases.

It would be worthwhile to see if the people who'd posted elsewhere had posted their stories in the review category here, and if so, a) whether the version posted elsewhere differed from the version posted here and b) how HG had responded. Some of the complaints that, on the surface, seem to involve the most outrageous HG behavior turn out to involve quite the opposite.

Second, consider statistics. This forum represents only a small proportion of HG members. I don't know how many of those verification nightmare stories you've read in the other fora, but that number is a tiny fraction of whatever the number is of account holders who've had no problems being verified and those who haven't had to be verified.

[RainbowViper]

Hello again, Mirni.

Rather than quote your entire post, I'll answer each part.

First, thank you.

Second, once verification is complete and your account is activated, it shouldn't be more than a day or two before you are up and running, assuming you immediately change the DNS servers at your Domain Registrar to point to your new site(s) here. You can even run "redundant" for a couple days to eliminate downtime. (By "redundant", I mean you can mirror your existing sites' content to the new account until DNS propagation is complete, then remove the old sites' content.) I do agree that the distance involved between you and Hostgator can present some challenges not easily overcome, especially if you have trouble. There's very little that can be done about that, but if you can use Skype to call Hostgator when you need to, the long distance charges are nearly eliminated.

Third, yes, Myrna Loy WAS considered a good actress.

Fourth, you haven't heard my Spanish. But, thank you nevertheless.

Sixth, thank you for educating me about Spain a little bit!

Seventh, if the great majority of your customers are in the USA, it makes sense to host here. The speeds are excellent. From what I understand, UK users also have very good speeds here. Yes, the American Dollar is in trouble, for now and the forseeable future, and the Euro is strong. That does make for ridiculously low prices for foreign customers who use HG hosting.

And last, I can't answer that. To my knowledge, I don't visit any sites in Spain at all, and even if I did, I would have to do so quite often to be able to judge whether the overall speed is "good enough" for your US customers.

I hope that answered your questions, and allows you to make an informed decision.

RV

[GatorJess]

Regarding verification selection, Hostgator discloses the possibility for verification selection during the signup process in the Terms of Service which one must check a box for stating that it was read and is agreed to before signup can be completed.

The TOS is found here:

http://www.hostgator.com/tos.shtml

Section 1:

..."In dedicated server purchases or high risk transactions, it will be necessary to provide government issued identification and possibly a scan of the credit card used for the purchase. If you fail to meet these requirements, the order may be considered fraudulent in nature and be denied."

Thanks again and sorry for any confusion!

Jess J.
Hostgator Support

[Jaga]

Mirna: I consider that you have no right to ask my personal information

They have every right to refuse business based on not being able to verify valid information on the person(s) in question opening a recurring-billing account, or not being able to retrieve good credit info on the same.

I don't know how people do business where you come from, but it is considered standard merchant rights to be able to refuse someone service based upon incomplete information which is clearly stated in the TOS.

Lastly - a merchant accepting PayPal as a valid payment option is not commonplace. Credit cards ARE the common form of payment, and incur a lot less problems. If you feel this is unjust, you might want to wait and not do business on the internet for another decade or two, until services like PayPal catch up. Eventually they will.

I'm not trying to make your concerns seem unimportant, but you can expect this kind of response from any merchant when you try to use PayPal for billing on recurring services.

[sporty]

Mirnitagl - HG is a company. They must sometimes taker the verification process to make sure they are not being scammed as we all know there are plenty of people out there that do this sort of thing every day. Does that mean they are unfair? NO. They are trying to make sure they are not being used in a fraudulant manor.

If you do not want to use HG then that is your choice. You keep saying you are not going to engage any more discussion because your mind is made up - yet here you are again and again going to town about this issue.

If you had a real company - you would know how hard it is keep the fraudulent accounts away from your site and signing up. They are only protecting their business.

They are never going to make everyone happy no matter what they do - so why are you beating a dead horse?

Sporty

[hypnotic72]

Mirnitagl I understand your frustration - I paid for and closed an account with a different host a couple of days ago due to the same issue - I did not see why I had to pay to get verified when my two other hosting companies didnt make me jump through hoops to join up and as I dont have a drivers license and did not feel comfortable sending front AND back of my credit card phone verification was my only option! (Not at my expense thank you!)

I found hostgator and this time contacted live support BEFORE paying and explained what I had just been through with the other company. The support guy I got was fantastic (friendly and helpful) The last part of our conversation (names edited) convinced me to part with my money ... and as he can see by his reply - If requested THEY WILL CONTACT YOU
I hope this helps other overseas customers with their choice to host with hostgator.


SUPPORT.: Every account is reviewed by our sales admins if they see any issues they will ask to verify the account
ME: ok, so as I am just a normal customer and not likely to have any issues and can pay by a verified means (credit card or paypal) then its not likely to be an issue? I have waited a week with this other host and it has wasted my time, if there is an issue are they able to call me rather than me having to phone America at my expense?
SUPPORT.: Yes our admins will attempt to contact you

[striddy]

Originally Posted by hypnotic72

.... phone verification was my only option! (Not at my expense thank you!) ... snip ... if there is an issue are they able to call me rather than me having to phone America at my expense?
SUPPORT.: Yes our admins will attempt to contact you

You can use Skype to call for FREE to HG's toll free number.

[mirnitagl]

Jaga,

I agree with you and the rest that HG has the right to ask for any verification regarding my identity, even after my payment is received and even after verifying that my credit card address matches my ip location,etc,etc. The same way I have the right to do some research on them and not to pay for their service if I find out that such verification process lasts longer than expected, it is very irritating, time-comsuming and gets me waiting for a time longer than I am willing to bare. It is a matter of choices and I chose not to take that chance.

But that was made very clear in previous threads. The reason why I am replying to you is because I think you're extremely misinformed regarding form of payment used worldwide. To begin with only 23% of Europeans use credit cards in their online payments even though most of them own more than one international card, when they do pay with credit cards online, they normally use national credit cards. Example, more than 60% of French people use Carte Bleu, a national card. In Germany they prefer direct debit or giropay. In Spain, curiously enough most people use international credit cards like visa or mastercard and also bank transfers.
One thing these countries and many others have in common is that they all have the choice to use paypal for their international payments and they often do it. Paypal has now office in the most important European cities. Paypal Spain can be visited here www.paypal.es
If you have ever had an online business you then know that it is not the customers who must adapt to your payment methods, it is in fact you,as company, who must adapt to potential customer's forms of payment, that is if you're smart and professional and do not want to miss good clients worldwide. And of course, taking into account that you do not believe you're the centre of the universe and the world revolves around you.
That is the key to the success of companies like click2pay, bibit, earthport and many many others, who offer payment gateways that adpat to a global payment method. Bibit, for example, has bank accounts in most European banks so the merchant using bibit can offer customers who do not want to pay with credit card, the option of making a bank transfer to a local bank. In Spain transfering money to a national bank is free, so imagine what an advantage that is!
To a lesser extent Paypal does that too, and hey, they have 140 000 000 accounts, of which 20 million belong to Uk customers. According to a recent study in UK,PayPal is preferred by 34% of online shoppers versus 20% for Visa, 9% for MasterCard, and 1% for American Express.

And you say that a merchant accepting paypal is not commonplace??? Are you kidding??? Most merchants in US and many in Europe are now accepting paypal, eventhough it is not safe for them to do so (If you know paypal, you know why) The reason why they do it is that so many customers are using paypal for payments that if they don't give it as a payment choice all those customers will go directly to their competitors and that's a lot of money they'd lose.

Summing up, credit cards ARE NOT the common form of payment worldwide, credit cards DO INCURR in a lot of problems thus the verification process,etc. From what you say I doubt you know how paypal works because paying with credit card and paying with paypal is the same thing, only that with paypal you do not have to give your credit card number to the merchant, you can add money to your paypal account with a bank transfer and you can use not only international cards but also local cards. JUst for your info: Ebay, Paypal, Shopping.com, Skype, among other important business belong to the same company, so it is very funny when you say they have to catch up with smaller companies.

I don't know what kind of merchants you have been visiting but I advise you to take another tour.

Originally Posted by Jaga

Lastly - a merchant accepting PayPal as a valid payment option is not commonplace. Credit cards ARE the common form of payment, and incur a lot less problems. If you feel this is unjust, you might want to wait and not do business on the internet for another decade or two, until services like PayPal catch up. Eventually they will.

I'm not trying to make your concerns seem unimportant, but you can expect this kind of response from any merchant when you try to use PayPal for billing on recurring services.

[mirnitagl]

Hello everyone!

I apologize for being absent so long. I "escaped" with my family to France for a few days because Spain is really hot this summer and it is impossible to stay at home with this heat. Unfortunately France was not any different but we had a good time there. I hope you're all enjoying a nice not-suffocating summer.

I appreciate all the answers given in this post, it just confirms to me the importance of fora and listening to people's comments before signing up with a company. After writing my last message I decided to visit Spanish fora and know what people were talking there. I was greatly surprised at how many Spanish folks were using US hosting company and they discussed the pros and cons to the smallest detail. And I am sorry to tell you that there were quite many bad reviews about hostgator, especially regarding "overselling" One topic I had not taken into account until now.

I found also comments regarding "verification”, especially from another angry customer who decided to cancel and ask for a refund after all the hassle. I didn't want to believe this time so easily a story posted in a forum, so I asked the guy his phone number in a PM and phoned him, he turned out to be a really nice person from Madrid who explained to me what happened to him directly, it was more or less the same story from the Russian guy in the forum Webmasters talk. Now, this was not a friend's friend story. It seems that Spanish and Europeans in general do have trouble for opening accounts at hostgator and more troubles even after they open it.
After that, I had no doubts at all. I decided to go for the only hosting company of which I have heard nothing but praises, a hosting company that even has a commitment with the bandwidth they offer you, not unlimited, because there's no such a thing, but they do say that if you pay for 50 gb, that is what you'll get or you'll get your money back doubled.
I will not say the name, don't want to be that bad with HG but if you search in the most famous webmaster fora from USA for a hosting company that doesn't have any bad review, not even one, only positive comments, you'll find it. Anyway, I signed up with them, I paid with paypal, no problem at all, I received a welcome message almost instantly and another message with all my account info. I was able to enter control panel right away. I transfered all my files, folder and databases and have not had to contact their client's attention service for anything at all because all has been really smooth and easy. Yet and to my surprise, they did contact me a week after my registration just to ask if I needed help transferring my files from my previous server, they say they could do it for me free of charge. That was very nice from them! Their speed is great and I have more space and bandwidth than I will be using in the next 2 years. The yearly price was so low I still can not believe I found this company!
I am so happy with my new host that I am thinking reselling their service to Spanish customers looking for a superb hosting company in USA.

Well, just wanted to let you all know that I finally found what I was looking for. From now on, I will have very much into account to search, ask, and listen to people's experiences (good, bad and neutral) before paying for any company's service, any service at all.

Rainbowviper: Stay as sweet and friendly as you're now. I may have started the post in an angry tone and really upset from the stories I read bout HG behaviour, but you explained your views and approached the issue in such a nice and friendly way that I had no choice but to calm myself down and reply in the same manner. That's the gift from well-mannered conciliating persons who can have a conversation with anyone no matter the circumstances. You have that gift, don't lose it!

Besos cariñosos para todos desde España,

Mirna.

[brandon206]

Originally Posted by GatorWesley

Keep in mind this isn't just for customers "outside of the USA", anyone that places an order (that we can't get a of hold by phone) if their risk score looks high we will place a temporary suspension on it until it can be verified. When this happens, we void/refund the charge for the initial invoice as well.

Now does that go by the IP used to sign up? Let's say I sign up from work, which is close to my house, but the IP is based 1500 miles away, because we run all internet through our main proxy server in TX... would I get flagged? Should I sign up from home where my connection is registered to my home address?

[GatorWesley]

"Distance to Billing" is only one thing that contributes to the overall score....it's possible that it could be flagged for this, but we will always try and reach the customer by phone to verify the order before placing it on hold for verification.

Originally Posted by Adorkable

In my opinion, a long-distance phone call is a small price to pay for extra security. Good luck finding a different host

You may actually call our toll-free number for free, from basically anywhere. Just download skype, install it, and dial +1866-964-2867 to connect to HostGator support for free. No international charges or fees are incurred for the call.

The verification is for your protection (and of course for ours). If someone stole your credit card and charged up hundreds of dollars worth of equipment, you still have to deal with the missing money, make phone calls to your bank, file a fraud report, maybe file a police report, talk to the merchant that accepted the transaction, and all of the other things that go along with dealing with a fraudulent purchase. You'd probably eventually get that money back from the fraudulent charge, but you may spend many hours doing so. On our side, we'd have to spend time dealing with the fraudulent charge as well, refunding the money (sans merchant fees) and the rest of the stuff that goes on from the merchant side. It would cost both the cardholder and ourselves considerably more in time and money if we did not verify accounts.

Keep in mind - if an account requires verification, we automatically refund the payment immediately. Yes, this means we pay two transaction fees (one for the first transaction that was voided, and again when/if the account passes verification and the order is re-submitted). We refund immediately as a courtesy, so the amount is not tied up. We do not "hold" it while we wait for verification. If there are any delays when it comes to having the initial payment refunded, it's because some banks do not process voids instantly. Some banks/financial institutions take a day, or even a few days, to actually credit an account after a payment is voided. We cannot speed that up. Some banks are quick, and some are slower, but we issue a void for the transaction immediately.

So, verifying an account protects the cardholder from problems and lost money, and it also helps protect us from fraudulent charges. Verifying accounts that are in high risk areas, or placing orders a long way away from the cardholder address, seems to be a responsible course of action, to me anyway.

[qwibbles]

Shame there is not an in dependant on-line verification service that works globally. . Then users could be directed to that to verify identity. Several websites do this already (Normally global identification numbers like drivers license / passport number are requested ... from this they can get your address details anyway ...). Other possible's are population census data or credit verification agents....

Telephone Numbers used to be used as verification by many companies, and still are (much to my annoyance) (You can do everything you need on your mobile...)

Sounds a bit too much like big brother ... and it would probably get 'abused'. (Tracking etc.)

Not easy to resolve this matter in the short term ... I am not sure of any easy way out of this.

(Suggestions are to help and nothing else. Please go easy on me .... )

[cleanxhost]

Originally Posted by gwyneth

Perhaps cleanXhost could weigh in...he's in Spain and has a couple of HG dedis.

My signup process was very simple and got my dedi in less than 2 days set up. The verification process was a simple phone call and if I remember correctly, I sent a copy of my credit card, and that was it.
I've had dedicated servers in the past living in the UK and now in Spain and wouldnt go elsewhere apart from the USA for one. In Europe they are way too expensive!

Cant think of anything else to say for now, it's way tooo hot and Im sweating in this heat!

[Adorkable]

HostGator is really too kind... There is no way I would let this person keep coming back when they're not hosted here, and don't plan to be.

Ha @ HawkHost being created in 2006.
I wonder who they're buying their reseller from.
A hosting review frequenter should be all too familiar with:
"The first few years were fine, then..."

It is not wise to look for stability without longevity.

[cleanxhost]

If I were you, I would stop spamming your affiliate link....

[CodingMonkey]

00ooo0oh lo0k a link i'll click it and sign up there!!11!1one.
Srsly. No.
That's just sad. How would you like it if I were to come to your site and start spamming my links? Tried to ruin your business?

[mirnitagl]

Oh! so sorry if my links disturb you so much. I suppose that If I copy the link in the signature as some people posting here have done, then it wouldn't be "spam"? would it?
Still, I stick to everything I said, be there annoying links or not

[cleanxhost]

The link in the signature is allowed for Hostgator customers...

[gwyneth]

Yes, CodingMonkey, the end of the OP's saga would be far more credible if she hadn't provided affiliate links to her new host. The spammers have gotten very, very creative here!

[mirnitagl]

I provided the link to my brand new shiny host because I was requested it. In fact, I didn't even had an affiliate link until today, when I receive that message. I thought to myself, why not?
I have taken a lot of trouble to find the "perfect host" why shouldn't I share it with others and get credit for my finding?
And that's what I did! And if you find it "credible" or not, it is not really something that would not let me sleep tonight